Failed Bulk Prime

[ballzac]

Hi everybody.

This happened ages ago, but I would like to try bulk priming again some time, and don't have the guts to try again until I figure out what went wrong the first time. Hopefully someone here has some suggestions as to what might be the problem. I normally just use carbonation drops, but they are expensive and limit the control I have over the level of carbonation.

A few months ago I tried my first bulk prime. It was a batch of 10 gallons of hefeweizen. I used John Palmer's priming sugar calculator, with the intention of carbonating to 3 volumes. I can't remember the specifics, but I do remember that I used over 300g of sugar. The sugar I used was labelled as glucose and was from one of those shitty chain homebrew shops, and tasted identical to what I know to be glucose/dextrose. I boiled the glucose in a small volume of water, waited for it to cool, and then racked the beer onto it. I stirred it thoroughly, but did not shake it or slosh it around because I did not want to aerate it. I racked it into bottles and capped them. I used the majority of what I had mixed with sugar, only leaving the small amount that was difficult to get out of the fermenter.

Not a single one of the bottles that I have opened have had any noticable level of carbonation at all. It has been over six months, and during this period I have recapped many bottles with a couple of carbonation drops, and these bottles have carbed up within 3 weeks no problem. I have no idea what could have happened. Clearly the yeast is okay. And the sugar must be in there somewhere. I trust Palmer's calculator, and even if it was not accurate, that amount of glucose would have to do something!

Has anyone else had this happen, or could offer an explanation as to what might have gone wrong? I have not heard of other people who actually know how to brew having a problem bulk priming.

Looking forward to feedback. Cheers!

 

[cdbrown]

300 grams seems to be about right for either table sugar or dextrose/glucose.

Could there have been a problem with the capping itself? Perhaps it didn't make a proper seal the first time so the gas being produced leaked out of the cap. Only when you recapped did it get a proper seal. Only thing I can think of.

 

[peas_and_corn]

It could be too cold for the yeast to ferment properly.

 

[mwd]

You can use ordinary table sugar, or dextrose available in Woolies or Coles.

Here is a good illustrated guide to bottling and bulk priming

Linky

 

[Snow]

300g should have been more than enough for 10 gallons. The shop either labelled the sugar incorrectly (maybe it was malto-dextrine?), there was a problem with your capper or caps, or it was too cold. If it was too cold, the beers you put the carbonation drops in (if you had any left) are now bottle bombs.

Cheers - Snow

 

[flattop]

for the same volume (around 45litres) i would have used close to 400gms of dextrose. I tend to use around 175-185gms dex per brew of around 22-23 liters. It can be a little overcarbed at times but it works for me as i tend to drink my beer young.
Sounds like your glucose was not great as a fermentable sugar.

Give it a go again, use dextrose from a different supplier.

 

[ballzac]

Definitely not the capping. Same caps, capper, and bottles as I always use. Can't be temperature, as all the ones that I primed with carb drops fermented fine in the same conditions. I have since opened more of the ones that were only bulk primed and they are still flat. It did cross my mind that if it was maltodextrin it would not have worked. I have never tasted maltodextrin, but somehow expect it to have a much different taste/mouthfeel to dextrose/glucose, which I find to be quite a distinctive sugar. Can anyone comment on this?

Thanks for all the quick replies. I think I will try again, and will get dextrose from a more reputable supplier (I hate those chain brew stores, but lived near one at the time, and didn't think I could go wrong with a bag of sugar). However, I might stick to my usual modus operandi for the moment as I do not have a huge amount of time and a brew usually take me a whole day, so I don't really want to complicate things at the moment. Bulk priming should simplify it and save time, but if I run into the same problem again, I don't really have the time to be recapping sixty something bottles.

 

[flattop]

Look if you are really stuck use cane sugar, apparently it is ok for priming.

I prefer dex.

 

[smollocks]

Look if you are really stuck use cane sugar, apparently it is ok for priming.

How long did you wait between adding the priming sugar and actually bottling? You want to bottle immediately after adding the sugar.

I use cane sugar and haven't had a problem that wasn't related to the amount of sugar I used. Try it, at least you can be confident it's the right stuff. If it doesn't work again, you can look at other potential causes.

 

[stueywhytcross]

maybe it was malto-dextrine?
Cheers - Snow

i've been caught with this before

 

[buttersd70]

Look if you are really stuck use cane sugar, apparently it is ok for priming.

Well......thats a matter of opinion.

:icon_vomit:

 

[Renegade]

I think it sounds like mixed up sugars. Are there any other factors that contribute to flat beer ? Yeast dying a complete and total death before bottling ? Seems a bit harse.

:icon_offtopic: @ the OP, Ballzac. I think you're a member at another 'specialty' forum that I lurk in. If so, Cool.

 

[HoppingMad]

Been experimenting a bit with bulk priming and have found it very hit and miss too. Even using calculators like Mr Malty and a table on craftbrewer.
I'm starting to revert back to spooning it in now unless I do double batches where it is a real time saver.

Even have alternated/experimented between using white sugar and dextrose to see if there was much difference in taste and fizz. Found that dextrose takes at least a week to two longer to get fizz (3-4 weeks) and it's not as big, whereas white seems to do it in 2-3 and the fizz can be much bigger. It is weird for you to have no reaction in a wheat beer. My wheats have been the fizziest of the lot as the wheat malt seems to react well to sugar priming and you can normally risk overpriming with these.

Flavourwise, I found that dex allows more of the beer flavour to remain where as white sugar marginally cloaks the flavour with a slight almost undetectable cidery element - but so subtle you wouldn't detect it unless you did a side by side test, and a non-brewing person would never notice. I brewed a double batch of APA recently and did one half (20L) one way and one (20L) the other and there was a difference. Also did an Aussie ale the same way just to be sure and got a similar result.

Hopper.

 

[manticle]

Well......thats a matter of opinion.

:icon_vomit:

I always read that there's no difference but apart from my first ever (overly fizzed) brew I used carb drops for early kit brews and now exclusively bulk prime with dex.

What's your preference/recommendation?

 

[buttersd70]

I always read that there's no difference but apart from my first ever (overly fizzed) brew I used carb drops for early kit brews and now exclusively bulk prime with dex.

What's your preference/recommendation?

Dextrose. I agree in the main with what HoppingMad says...

Flavourwise, I found that dex allows more of the beer flavour to remain where as white sugar marginally cloaks the flavour with a slight almost undetectable cidery element - but so subtle you wouldn't detect it unless you did a side by side test, and a non-brewing person would never notice.

I've said similar in the past, and usually get bood at for it. :unsure: The only part I would disagree with is the last bit about not detecting it other than in a side by side....I think that depends on the beer. Lightly hopped, pale beers, particularly if low gravity, give nowhere for the flavours to hide, and it's more noticable. Conversely, in other beers with bold flavours (lots of dark roast, or lots of hops), I need to be honest and say I can't taste it.

 

[flattop]

I did say "apparently" ..... i have read it, but i repeat that i use dex.....

 

[ballzac]

How long did you wait between adding the priming sugar and actually bottling? You want to bottle immediately after adding the sugar.

I use cane sugar and haven't had a problem that wasn't related to the amount of sugar I used. Try it, at least you can be confident it's the right stuff. If it doesn't work again, you can look at other potential causes.

I waited half an hour as John Palmer suggests. Even on a hot day I don't think this could account for much. It would take a week or more to account for the TOTAL lack of fizz that this beer has.

I think it sounds like mixed up sugars. Are there any other factors that contribute to flat beer ? Yeast dying a complete and total death before bottling ? Seems a bit harse.

:icon_offtopic: @ the OP, Ballzac. I think you're a member at another 'specialty' forum that I lurk in. If so, Cool.

Can't be yeast death, as the ones later primed with carb drops are fizzy. I have now since opened all of the originally bottled beers, and NONE were fizzy, so I think it must have been the wrong type of sugar...bloody Brewcraft <_< . And yes, I am also a member at another semi-related forum h34r: .