Extract Hefe Weissbier Recipe

[Dazza_devil]

Evenin' Brewers,
I'm planning an extract Hefe Weissbier of sorts and would be interested in any opinions or pointers on a recipe which is in it's early stages. I haven't ordered any ingredients as yet so anything goes with the extract, hops and spec. grains. I do however have a nice little sample of WY3638 which I intend to start feeding very shortly.

I was thinking something like this for 22 litres
OG 1.045
2kg Dried Wheat Malt
500g dextrose

100g Caramel Wheat
200g Carahell

15g Sapphire @ 60mins
15g Sapphire @ 20 mins

around a 3 litre starter of 3638 pitched and fermented @ 17 degrees C.

Expected IBU's 12.4
EBC 9.8
5% alc
Probably carbonated to something between 3 and 3.5 vols CO2


I've no idea what to do as far as type and amount of speciality grains go for this style so I have the Caramel Wheat and Carahell as a startng point.
I'm considering raising the fermentation temp a couple of degrees over the first couple of days.
Recenly I had the opportunity of consuming a Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier which has proven to be an inspiration to brew this beer, delicious. Anything remotely similar would be just fine by me.


Cheers

 

[Bizier]

Great yeast for starters. That will make the friggin' world of difference if you can treat it nice.

I know this might sound a little lame, but I would imagine that if you used absolutely the freshest cans of coopers liquid wheat extract, plus perhaps a tiny steep of melanoidin malt, you might get a pretty decent weizen.

Your hop choice is good, though might make it frutier. I used it in a vague attempt to clone the Schneider/Brooklyner collab beer, I did not suceed in getting what I wanted from it though.

What type of weizen are you after, eg. the more savoury ones or the sweeter ones?

 

[Dazza_devil]

I prefer my beers on the dry side, somewhere between 1.010 and 1.015 would be good.
I'm a big fan of the Moo Brew Hefeweizen but the Weihenstephaner I thought was something else.

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

I have never brewed this type of beer but isn't the IBU very low?

 

[Bizier]

Have you tried schofferhofer or the schneider-weiss or maisel's? Worth a look if you haven't.

I think it would be best, especially with extract to keep the crystals out of it, as it will be sweet enough with the residual malt sweetness versus the low hopping rate.

Aus Rider: IBU right in centre of style: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style15.php#1a

I will add that I have not brewed many hefes, nor mine been what I like, even many pros can't nail them, BUT when they are good, they are great!

I got some good ideas from Zwickel's input into this thread.

 

[Synthetase]

Looks like a good one. Personally, I'd reduce the cara grains a touch to just add a little bit of malt depth and nothing more - but that's just personal taste.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Thanks for the tips, advise, encouragement and links.
I'll contemplate lowering the spec. grains a tad.
The Munton's Dried Wheat Extract that I used in my Dunkleweissen made a much superior beer than the Cooper's Liquid Wheat Malt(which was nice and fresh) in my Weizenbock. Although there were many other possible contributing factors it is very tempting to use the Munton's in this one. I've emailed CraftBrewer and waiting a response on what brand of Dried Wheat Extract he has, it's about the same price I paid for the Munton's and would be convenient in the one package if it's Munton's.

 

[WSC]

Thanks for the tips, advise, encouragement and links.
I'll contemplate lowering the spec. grains a tad.
The Munton's Dried Wheat Extract that I used in my Dunkleweissen made a much superior beer than the Cooper's Liquid Wheat Malt(which was nice and fresh) in my Weizenbock. Although there were many other possible contributing factors it is very tempting to use the Munton's in this one. I've emailed CraftBrewer and waiting a response on what brand of Dried Wheat Extract he has, it's about the same price I paid for the Munton's and would be convenient in the one package if it's Munton's.

Hey Boagsy, when you hear from CB can you post. I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Hey Boagsy, when you hear from CB can you post. I was wondering the same thing.

No luck as far so I've emailed Ross, they must be busy.
Anyone else purchased the Dried Wheat Malt Extract from Ross?

 

[Dazza_devil]

Turns out CB's Dried Wheat Extract is the Munton's.

Just getting my order together and I'm thinking I might drop the Caramel Wheat and just have the 200g Carahell as a crystal contribution, whatdya's reckon?

And, I think I'll droop the 20 min Sapphire addition back to 30 mins.

 

[kocken42]

Is the dried wheat malt a combination of wheat and pale? as the cans of wheat extract are around 50% of each (Coopers is 50/50, Muntons is a bit more wheat, maybe 60/40)

If the dried wheat malt is purely wheat malt, I would imagine that an 80% wheat malt and 20% dex in regards to base fermentables may be too much wheat...perhaps 1.0kg wheat, 1.0kg light, 0.5kg dex would be better?

If I am totally wrong, forgive my stupidity

 

[Dazza_devil]

Is the dried wheat malt a combination of wheat and pale? as the cans of wheat extract are around 50% of each (Coopers is 50/50, Muntons is a bit more wheat, maybe 60/40)

If the dried wheat malt is purely wheat malt, I would imagine that an 80% wheat malt and 20% dex in regards to base fermentables may be too much wheat...perhaps 1.0kg wheat, 1.0kg light, 0.5kg dex would be better?

If I am totally wrong, forgive my stupidity

The DWME is at least 50% Wheat apparently.

 

[manticle]

Turns out CB's Dried Wheat Extract is the Munton's.

Just getting my order together and I'm thinking I might drop the Caramel Wheat and just have the 200g Carahell as a crystal contribution, whatdya's reckon?

And, I think I'll droop the 20 min Sapphire addition back to 30 mins.

Hi mate,

My experience of hefe making is mainly AG but I would go with quite a simple base which seems to be which way you are inclining too. In an AG hefe I would be looking at a pils/wheat combination and would be unlikely to put any spec grains in at all. It's rare that I'd recommend that with extract beers as they can sometimes be a bit uni-dimensional without but in the case of the hefe, you will mainly be looking at getting character from the yeast (which you've sorted). As someone mentioned above - melanoiden might give you the character of a decoction.

I know nothing about sapphire but I'd be inclined to get all my IBU from a single addition. If you want a later addition then dropping back to 30 mins is probably good.

That said - your main aim is making a good beer that you like rather than a stricly to style hefe so if you feel like you'd enjoy the character of some crystal in there or a bit more hop flavour then why not?

 

[Dazza_devil]

Hi mate,

My experience of hefe making is mainly AG but I would go with quite a simple base which seems to be which way you are inclining too. In an AG hefe I would be looking at a pils/wheat combination and would be unlikely to put any spec grains in at all. It's rare that I'd recommend that with extract beers as they can sometimes be a bit uni-dimensional without but in the case of the hefe, you will mainly be looking at getting character from the yeast (which you've sorted). As someone mentioned above - melanoiden might give you the character of a decoction.

I know nothing about sapphire but I'd be inclined to get all my IBU from a single addition. If you want a later addition then dropping back to 30 mins is probably good.

That said - your main aim is making a good beer that you like rather than a stricly to style hefe so if you feel like you'd enjoy the character of some crystal in there or a bit more hop flavour then why not?

Thanks Manticle,

Usually I would of stuck more to style regarding hop additions but when I read up on the Sapphire pellets I thought a hint of flavour from them sounded like it may compliment the yeast, worth a try anyway. Hopefully it doesn't overpower the yeast profile because I want the yeast to be the stand out, as you would.
I'm not really sure about the Melanoidin, how much would you use if your not mashing it to get the desired result? Are there other options? It mentions that it is a substitute for Belgian Aromatic and similar to honey malt on the CB site.
I'm aiming for something light and refreshing to enjoy when spring gets here properly. I wanted this ready by the first full moon which follows the spring equinox.

Edit - just done the calculations and Equinox for Tasmania will be 1:09pm on 23rd September followed by a full moon at 7:17pm later that day. Strange that they both occur on the same day this year but this means my beer wont be ready. I reckon it'll be all gone by the moon after that.

 

[manticle]

Melanoidin can just be steeped - same way you use your crystals.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Melanoidin can just be steeped - same way you use your crystals.

Would Melanoidin increase my OG any more than a usual spec. grain?

 

[Dazza_devil]

What if I was to get a pre-cracked 500g bag with half'n'half carahell and melanoidin, shake it all up well to get an even mix then use about 200g of it in this recipe?

 

[manticle]

I get my melanoidins from decoctions so someone else will have to advise there. Probably worth just having a crack though. I don't think anything you've suggested so far would make bad beer.

 

[Dazza_devil]

The only thing that worries me is that using a portion of a 50/50 mix of grain doesn't guarantee an even amount of each grain in the recipe. I guess I could get 500g of each and put them to further use in another recipe or just use one grain or the other. I'm hopeless when it comes to decisions.

 

[warra48]

I'd agree with the advice to drop the Carawheat and Carahell back. A Hefeweizen is meant to be a refreshing crisp beer. Too much of the Cara grains will make it too sweet, particularly given there's not the IBUs to balance the sweetness.
Although I brew AG, my hefes are brewed 50/50 wheat/pils, with just 100 gr Carahell. That's it.
It's what I would go with, 100 gr total of either of your two choices.