Extract Brews Too Bitter - Help!

[Mickthe]

Hey all

I have made a few extract brews now, after having read up on the How, and the Why of how it will make my beers better.

I have had three extract brews turn out really well except that in all three the beer has ended up being a little too bitter, a Hefeweizen, a Belgian Ale, and the DSGA (clone).

Each time i have re-checked the hop schedule, my timings were spot on, and i did also cool the wort quickly at the end of the boil.

I did not attempt to strain out all the loose hops after having read about hot wort oxidation, and i am using a 10litre stockpot for about an 8 litre boil by the time i have added everything in incl grain steep liquid.

After almost two months the bitterness in the Belgian Ale has mellowed slightly, and it really is becoming a wonderful beer with a rich sweetness (the Candi sugar?) balanced by a strong flavour that maybe the T-58 yeast has thrown in, but still has a quite bitter aftertaste that seems just a tad out of balance, enough to be noticeable. Maybe at 3 mths it will be really good, don't know if i am that patient though. (Recipe I can post if anyone is interested)

Q: Is there such thing as hop over-efficiency? Do i reduce my 60min hop addition by 20% or something and see how it turns out? Do i reduce the volume of liquid for the boil a little? Should i be finding a way to remove some of the loose hops in the wort? Do any hop debris drop out through a CC period and do they contribute to bitterness in a problem way?

Maybe some daft questions....but if someone experienced the same maybe you have a suggestion?

Cheers,

Michael.

PS. Thanks to all that helped with my Hefe, the extract version with no kit, all wheat malt, and no dextrose, seems much improved out of fermenter, it's richer, and even though i stuck with WB06 this time, i fermented 2 degrees higher and i do have some bubblegum so very promising!! Now that i have a base for comparison, next time i will have a go using 3068 yeast.

 

[glaab]

get yourself a copy of beersmith, you'll get your bitterness smack on everytime. :icon_cheers:
usually the problem is low boil gravity I suspect,..

ps, if you post the recipe I'll run it through bs and see what we get

 

[Mickthe]

Belgian Ale -
1.5kg Morgans Pale Liquid Malt
1kg LDME
300g Belgian Dark Candi Sugar
100g Brown Sugar
150g Caramunich Grain
150g Cara-aroma Grain
30g Styrian Goldings 4.8AA% 60mins
30g Styrian Goldings 4.8% 30mins
30g Saaz 2.5% 2 mins.
T-58 Safbrew Yeast (Whitelabs Trappist Ale Yeast optional)

22 litres total - 8 litre boil.

Maybe it is just the recipe - i ran it through an older version of the K & K spreadsheet on this site, and decided i needed to add the 30minute addition, also due to the original recipe having 5.4% AA hops and not 4.8% which is what i had on hand.

 

[glaab]

something doesn't add up, I'm only getting 14 IBUs with a boil SG of 1122. Are you boiling everything for the 60min or adding LME/ DME at the end?

 

[Mickthe]

Ok maybe this extract brewing caper is more complicated than i thought!

I added the LDME at the start, then after the 45 mins added dissolved Candi Sugar which was 1 litre, and the LME was added right near the end of the 60 mins.

I have tasted the beer from this recipe at my LHBS (without the 30 min hop add) and it was balanced and fairly smooth, but a lot more than that in IBU's, it was just the 60min addition 30g of 5.4AA St Goldings.

Mick.

 

[glaab]

what most do is aim for a boil gravity of 1040 to get consistent/ predictable hops utilisation. Theres a million ways to do it, I'd probably use the wort from the grain and the 400g sugars and work out the boil size from there, it's 4.8L,.[also makes it easier to hit pitching temp boiling less] The LLME can go straight into the fermenter so can the DME if it's unopened [and not repackaged], if it's not I'd boil it for 5 mins.
BS estimates 30IBUs [tinseth] doing it like this with an IBU/ SG ratio of 0.65, not real bitter. If you download a trial of BS you can open the attached file then look at the "brewsheet"
If you double click on the LME and LLME you'll see I've checked a box "add after boil"
as the 4.8l boils off I top it up every 10mins or so with boiling water, but going above the 4.8l mark will make it more bitter as the SG goes down.
hopefully that's pointed you in the right direction, Cheers

i fanyone see's any probs with this method please feel free to butt in ;]

View attachment recipes.bsm

 

[Dazza_devil]

so can the DME if it's unopened [and not repackaged], if it's not I'd boil it for 5 mins.

Isn't it all repackaged?

 

[glaab]

Isn't it all repackaged?

not the coopers stuff

 

[Dazza_devil]

Oh yeah, forgot about the Coopers. Expensive but seems like good malt.

 

[Mickthe]

thanks glaab for your help

i dived in at the deep end with extract didn't I.......i hadn't read up on the boil gravity concept....

So i was using too much liquid for the boil, and did not need to have all that malt in there....i will have a look at beersmith and see if i can work it all out.

thanks again

Mick.

 

[Mickthe]

Had a look over the Brewsheet, how the malt additions affect the Boil SG and IBU's.....now it is starting to make sense.

I don't know why my brew was bitter with quite a high boil gravity, but will use the Software next time and hopefully this will ensure a better result with my hops.

Mick.

 

[nqtrancer]

Got the same problem mick.

I just did my first extract boil yesterday. Did a bit of reading before i started and it seemed the standard course was to steep grain, then chuck in the malts, do the boil. Its come out fairly dark at the end to :/


I had a taste of the brew before i stuck it in the fridge for fermenting, its a JSGA clone and the amarillo has really come through, to the point of it being a bit to bitter

similar to mickthe's setup, 8ltr odd boil.

I hope i havnt just put $40 worth of ingredients down the drain :angry: but then again, maybe i'm being to worried tasting before any of the sugars have fermented.

 

[Scruffy]

You kids and your bitter tasting beer... Hgmghffff

That's what beer tastes like... real beer...


if you don't want it to taste bitter, don't put 100 grams of hops in it... It's bitter because you put new fresh bitter things in it

It's all relative, do you think VB is bitter? What do you think is bitter...

Bitter will mellow out over time...

 

[nqtrancer]

You kids and your bitter tasting beer... Hgmghffff

That's what beer tastes like... real beer...


if you don't want it to taste bitter, don't put 100 grams of hops in it... It's bitter because you put new fresh bitter things in it

It's all relative, do you think VB is bitter? What do you think is bitter...

Bitter will mellow out over time...

haha

I think coopers sparkling ale is bitter, but i like it... VB isnt even a beer is it? ^_^
But i was expecting something not to bitter from 15g @ 60mins, 10 @ 20, 10@ 10 and 10 @ flame out.
(not hijackin your thread here mick)

 

[Mickthe]

Scruffy you are right about beer being bitter

THe thing is, for the style the bitterness comes in a bit hard in the aftertaste, and not in balance. I don't mind hoppy lagers or IPA's but that's what i expect to be tasting.

My boil volume should have only been 5 litres.

Anyway NQ TRancer.......it's not wasted at all, just leave ir a little longer and the bitterness will settle out, it just might not taste exactly as it should have but will still be a nice beer.

Yeah the Amarillo is really fruity passiona !!

Mick.