Expensive Microbrew Beer

[gibbocore]

geeez mate, ever thought of making your own beer?

 

[jimi]

No worries BribieG, glad it's found some use. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I've posted a new thread as suggested, you're probably right that there are now a new generation of brewers who would use it if they had it.
:beer:




Hi Mickey, you're right it was probably an unfair swipe but it does piss me off a bit. I'm not in the trade so it is not for me to say whether it is the microbrewery, the retailer or the government that is taking the piss, all I know is that for some absurd reason I pay the same for a 'commercial homebrew' from round the corner as I pay for the world's legendary beers shipped half way round the planet. Go figure. I also have a completely irrational hatred of hop pellets, and it really gets my goat to do a microbrewery tour where some bloke presents a schooner full of effing pellets and tells the crowd that this is what hops look like. It isn't. Hops are beautiful, delicate flowers that come from a field, not a rat turd full of bastardised powder that comes from a factory. Whether it makes any difference to the taste I don't really care, it's more a philosophy about treating your ingredients with respect, using the whole natural ingredient and not just the part that some factory tells you is the bit you need. Brewing beer isn't about convenience. What's next, using DME instead of 'whole malt' because it's 'more convenient'? Exactly what is it we're paying for if breweries won't do anything 'inconvenient'? Grrr...

I haven't sampled much microbrew of late I have to confess (not since the microbrewery showcase of maybe 2007?) , so if yours is a really special beer that I couldn't brew myself and you use the best (rather than the most 'economically realistic') ingredients then hats off to you and maybe I should shut up and buy some. But I got a bit sick of paying top dollar for slabs of essentially homebrew that are merely a COPY of the world's great styles, using cheaper varieties of malt to do it than I would buy, and bloody pellet hops that I won't touch with a pole in my own brewery. If I'm going to spend the best part of $100 a slab I'd rather buy, I don't know, Pilsner Urquell or Guinness or Boddingtons or Kozel or Newcastle Brown or Gosser or some other beer that I know I'd have trouble emulating myself and which probably AREN'T brewed with rat turds. Better yet spend 'not that much' more and get a bloody Trappist or something really special that offers a spiritual experience and makes me glad to be alive.

I'm not anti-microbrew by any stretch but I feel like we're being asked to pay too much for it, and there are a few designer tossbags popping up peddling particularly crappy instant powderbrau spoiling the scene for the good ones.

FWIW I really, REALLY enjoyed LCPA when it first appeared in Victoria but even that doesn't get me so excited any more. Whether it's changed or whether I've just become a miserable git I don't know.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm just a miserable git, so ignore me

:icon_offtopic: I'm glad you acknowledged that your fear of pellets was "completely irrational" h34r:

 

[Sydneybrewer]

And although it's not 'craft' I bought an Oettinger for $30 brewed to Reinheitsgebod and just as bloody nice as a Blue Tongue or a Bondi Blonde IMHO.

believe it or not i brought 2 cartons of Oettinger fir $30 from my local liqourland thats $15 each unheard of for any beer i quizzed the clerk and he said they weren't selling at all so they needed to offload them, i didnt mind them at all either went back to pick some more up and all sold out was spewing.

 

[drtomc]

Hey WG, that's the best rant I've read all week.

Hate to disappoint you, but you are aware aren't you that more than one of the trappists use hop extract.

T.

 

[bconnery]

Mate if you think Guinness or Boddingtons or Kozel or Newcastle Brown aren't brewed with "rat turds" you are in for dissapointment...
In fact I'd guess that at least one of those may no longer contain any "real", by your standards, hops at all.

Pellets are hops. Just because they've compressed the ingredient doesn't make it any less natural...

 

[Wortgames]

Pellets are hops. Just because they've compressed the ingredient doesn't make it any less natural...

Nope. If you compress hops you get plugs. To get pellets you have to remove quite a lot of what brewers traditionally included when they added hops. So what if the factory tell us those bits aren't important - I don't care, I want them anyway.

I don't see the attraction at all. How inconvenient are real hops for goodness sake? They are a pleasure to use and if you set up your kettle with a false bottom they make a perfect filter bed. Pellets on the other hand, form a vile sludge and it is an indignity to the plant that we are supposed to regard so highly.

Perhaps AHB should change it's banner graphic to get rid of those pesky hop flowers, what we want to see are some nice convenient rat turds right?

And while we're at it, let's forget this ridiculous 'mashing' business, did you know you can get malt in a nice convenient powder?

 

[gibbocore]

How inconvenient are real hops for goodness sake?

they're double the size for one. So they're probably double the shipping cost.

 

[bum]

And while we're at it, let's forget this ridiculous 'mashing' business, did you know you can get malt in a nice convenient powder?

This analogy points more towards isohops than pellets.

I'm sure everyone here has at least tasted a beer that was made in part with extract and pellets and enjoyed it. What is the point of laying down dogma to eliminate options? Don't want to use them? Absolutely understandable. It gets less understandable when you start questioning other people's practises. You've basically told about 90% of people here they aren't making real beer.

 

[petesbrew]

geeez mate, ever thought of making your own beer?

+1

Case of belgian beer = $130.
2 cases of homebrewed belgian beer = $20-30.

Dan murphy's there ready for my education, one bottle of expensive beer at a time. Hell yeah single bottles are pricey, if only we could write it off on tax.

 

[eric8]

Doesn't the AA in pellets last longer than in flowers when stored? Don't forget that those lovely whole flowers also suck upo a bit more of that lovely wort that you are making. I use both and love them equally as much, and that vile sludge at the bottom of your kettle can be minimised by using a false bottom or bb hopscreen.

 

[HoppingMad]

they're double the size for one. So they're probably double the shipping cost.

And warehousing space. Of the last three Vic microbrewers I've spoken to (two metro one regional), not one uses hop flowers, except when they dabble with occaisional limited 'seasonal' brews. One look at a bunch of 'bales' of hops would explain why. The stuff can take up a bit of space.

Red Hill Brewery is an exception of course as they grow their own, so no shipping there.

Hopper.

 

[drsmurto]

I disagree - I pay it occasionally but I spit chips every time.

For that sort of money I could buy some of the world's finest beers, brewed in their country of origin with the finest malt, barley and water for the style. Why on earth should I spend exactly the same dollars on some tossy 'microbrew', brewed around the corner using the same bloody tap water I use and CHEAPER malt and hops (pellets usually) than what I use in my own beers?

Perhaps it's not a cool attitude for a 'home microbrewer' to hold but I really feel that somebody's taking the piss sometimes.

Wont quote your 2nd, even less useful rant but you seriously need to remove the bug up your arse, take a chill pill, pour yourself a pint of your beer (since its clearly better than any micro in this country <_< ).

When you do the sums and take into account the basic infrastructure required to construct even a small scale (500L) microbrewery and add that cost to your final price (not to mention the excise which i assume you haven't even bothered to account for) then the cost of $60-80 per carton is quite understandable. I made a tentative start on this process and the numbers freaked me out. I've heard of brewers that have taken 3-5 years just to raise the capital to get their brewery to the production point.

The price that you can make beer for doesnt take either of this into account.

I will happily support microbreweries when handing over $ for beer. :icon_cheers:

And since you started an argument that you clearly cant win, try and buy a carton of imported english ale for cheaper than a local microbrewed beer.

 

[Trav]

No worries BribieG, glad it's found some use. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I've posted a new thread as suggested, you're probably right that there are now a new generation of brewers who would use it if they had it.
:beer:




Hi Mickey, you're right it was probably an unfair swipe but it does piss me off a bit. I'm not in the trade so it is not for me to say whether it is the microbrewery, the retailer or the government that is taking the piss, all I know is that for some absurd reason I pay the same for a 'commercial homebrew' from round the corner as I pay for the world's legendary beers shipped half way round the planet. Go figure. I also have a completely irrational hatred of hop pellets, and it really gets my goat to do a microbrewery tour where some bloke presents a schooner full of effing pellets and tells the crowd that this is what hops look like. It isn't. Hops are beautiful, delicate flowers that come from a field, not a rat turd full of bastardised powder that comes from a factory. Whether it makes any difference to the taste I don't really care, it's more a philosophy about treating your ingredients with respect, using the whole natural ingredient and not just the part that some factory tells you is the bit you need. Brewing beer isn't about convenience. What's next, using DME instead of 'whole malt' because it's 'more convenient'? Exactly what is it we're paying for if breweries won't do anything 'inconvenient'? Grrr...

I haven't sampled much microbrew of late I have to confess (not since the microbrewery showcase of maybe 2007?) , so if yours is a really special beer that I couldn't brew myself and you use the best (rather than the most 'economically realistic') ingredients then hats off to you and maybe I should shut up and buy some. But I got a bit sick of paying top dollar for slabs of essentially homebrew that are merely a COPY of the world's great styles, using cheaper varieties of malt to do it than I would buy, and bloody pellet hops that I won't touch with a pole in my own brewery. If I'm going to spend the best part of $100 a slab I'd rather buy, I don't know, Pilsner Urquell or Guinness or Boddingtons or Kozel or Newcastle Brown or Gosser or some other beer that I know I'd have trouble emulating myself and which probably AREN'T brewed with rat turds. Better yet spend 'not that much' more and get a bloody Trappist or something really special that offers a spiritual experience and makes me glad to be alive.

I'm not anti-microbrew by any stretch but I feel like we're being asked to pay too much for it, and there are a few designer tossbags popping up peddling particularly crappy instant powderbrau spoiling the scene for the good ones.

FWIW I really, REALLY enjoyed LCPA when it first appeared in Victoria but even that doesn't get me so excited any more. Whether it's changed or whether I've just become a miserable git I don't know.

In fact I'm pretty sure I'm just a miserable git, so ignore me

Would you prefer that nobody has a go at putting out some different beers for people to CHOOSE to buy or not buy.Many of the world famous beers you talk of are actually able to produce beer a lot cheaper than ours as they are producing hundreds and thousands of cartons a day. I am sure if you wanted to import beer from a 4hl brewery in belgium or the US or anywhere else for that matter, you would pay quite a premium for that product. There is no question that many homebrewers can brew many beers as good if not better than some of the micro beers available, but putting it onto the market is a different story.

Many breweries use pellets as it is at times very hard to get your hands on the flowers and plugs due to them being bought up by larger micros around the world. Flowers and plugs also clog much of the expensive equipment such as the heat exchanger etc. I am quite amazed that you are so passionate about the form of hops used.

As far as the price goes you really have no idea how much time and effort goes into putting a beer onto the shelf. I do not claim to be an expert either but i am giving it ago. In fact i am off to the brewery tonight to package our 50 cartons for the week and then deliver our beer to a range of stockists on Thursday night and brew again on Sat morning at 6am and teach school kids all week as well. We have been trading for some 7 months and are yet to see any return in our investment. It is quite dissappointing to here people such as yourself complain aboout the price of micro beer. If we were to sell our beer to retailers for any less than $50 a carton we would be gone and dusted within months. Yes, the busy schedule and lack of income etc is our choice and nobody elses but it is very disheartening to listen to people such as yourself put down a very hard working industry with minimal financial return. Bottom line, if its too expensive for you dont buy it!
Anyway that my 2c worth. Sorry mate couldnt ignore you.....
Cheers
Trav Kooinda Boutique Brewery (Proud to be!) :icon_chickcheers:

 

[peas_and_corn]

Many breweries use pellets as it is at times very hard to get your hands on the flowers and plugs due to them being bought up by larger micros around the world. Flowers and plugs also clog much of the expensive equipment such as the heat exchanger etc. I am quite amazed that you are so passionate about the form of hops used.

IIRC it's also quite hard to get flowers and plugs anyway due to quarantine issues. QB recently looked into this.

As far as the price goes you really have no idea how much time and effort goes into putting a beer onto the shelf. I do not claim to be an expert either but i am giving it ago. In fact i am off to the brewery tonight to package our 50 cartons for the week and then deliver our beer to a range of stockists on Thursday night and brew again on Sat morning at 6am and teach school kids all week as well. We have been trading for some 7 months and are yet to see any return in our investment. It is quite dissappointing to here people such as yourself complain aboout the price of micro beer. If we were to sell our beer to retailers for any less than $50 a carton we would be gone and dusted within months. Yes, the busy schedule and lack of income etc is our choice and nobody elses but it is very disheartening to listen to people such as yourself put down a very hard working industry with minimal financial return. Bottom line, if its too expensive for you dont buy it!
Anyway that my 2c worth. Sorry mate couldnt ignore you.....
Cheers
Trav Kooinda Boutique Brewery (Proud to be!) :icon_chickcheers:

This.

I'd like to try your beer (hell, I want to try all Australian microbrew)- though I don't know where I can get it in SA (if it is available here)

 

[Trav]

IIRC it's also quite hard to get flowers and plugs anyway due to quarantine issues. QB recently looked into this.



This.

I'd like to try your beer (hell, I want to try all Australian microbrew)- though I don't know where I can get it in SA (if it is available here)

Sorry mate not in SA yet, although you can order online at Purvis Cellars, Montys of Templestowe and coming soon to the Microbeer club. Cheers mate enjoy!

 

[RobboMC]

Just had my worst brewing weekend ever so maybe me?

First all brew infection and my attempted all apple cider went wrong in every which way possible (melted my girlfriend's juicer, damaged my friend's food processor, extracted half the amount of juice I should have and had to add 12 L of ALDI to what should have been my first all apple) AND I PUT MY LEFT SHOE ON MY RIGHT FOOT!!

OF COURSE I'M A GRUMPY WUMPY.

Also I'm out of brew and having to drink cleanskin wine and other things.

Thanks for that insight, I'm down to my last 50 litres and I thought I was in a bother. My last huge special brew turned out
pretty ordinary as I over-bittered it, and all my really good stuff is drank. But I'm now feel I'm quite well off compared to you poor fella.

 

[zebba]

Comments about being able to brew micro-brewery equivalent beers are all pretty moot when you consider that most people aren't home brewers. Who cares if the micro-brewery beer isn't as good as your homebrew, or isn't as good as some Belgian - it's (probably) infinitely better then what the regular punters would be drinking if it wasn't an option.

Head into almost any restaurant and look at the beer list. Almost without fail you'll be disappointed. Now, if I found a restaurant serving good curries with Murrays Icon 2IPA on the beer list, I'd be there twice a week.

Yeah, maybe the world doesn't need another pale ale from another boutique brewery. But I'd rather that then the latest "Carlton Extra Dry Gold Blonde (With Lime)"

 

[WarmBeer]

Yeah, maybe the world doesn't need another pale ale from another boutique brewery. But I'd rather that then the latest "Carlton Extra Dry Gold Blonde (With Lime)"

Hey, I think you're denying certain beer drinkers their only source of Vitamin C for the week.

Stop encouraging scurvy, and let them have their lime.

 

[Count Vorlauf]

Nicely put, Trav.

P.S. Oettinger is the German equivalent of Fosters Lite Ice.

 

[petesbrew]

Nicely put, Trav.

P.S. Oettinger is the German equivalent of Fosters Lite Ice.

tastes better though....