Electrical Assistance Required For Bcs460

[Jord]

Hi brewers,

I am putting the call out for anyone with the know how to help me with the wiring of a BCS460. I have zero electrical experience, and after sourcing a couple of components, I have stalled with this build.

I have attached this link http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/BCS...-wiring-2-4.jpg to a wiring diagram which delivers pretty much what I want from the unit, but it was prepared by a member of a US forum, and obviously they do things a bit differently over there with supply voltages and element draws etc so I wasn't confident of translating it to my system.

Can anybody tell me what would need to be altered to make this work safely here in Aus? Better still, as I have no intention of attempting the wiring myself, if anyone between Maitland and Wyong felt inclined to get involved with this, I would be very happy to have a chat to you about it, and would do my best to make it worth your while!

Cheers for any help you can offer...

Jord

 

[MastersBrewery]

ok only had a quick look, but 5.5kw per element ? You understand you couldn't run one of these from a normal aussie power socket. You will need dedicated wiring for where ever you use this beast. You really need to find a sparky and make him a mate B)

 

[ampy]

Running 2 5.5kW elements, more than likely need you consumer mains upgraded as well as new dedicated circuits.

Or are you looking to wire this up to suit your system? http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/produc...rol-system.html

 

[user 11978]

Jord, I would love to come and help but I am a little far away (Wollongong area) I am however a sparky with an engineering diploma;

the US use 120V and this has been designed so it actually uses 2 phases creating 240V (but easy enough to modify, just have line 2 as active and line 1 neutral, you would also have to change the contactors so they have 240v coils not 120...

I fail to see how the Emergency stop is effective as it goes straight to earth and does not disconnect any equipment from supply...

you would require a dedicated circuit to be able to run this and without checking in my book you would need cable in the size of around 6mm (2.5x the size of normal power outlet cable size) and ensure that more than 1 element does not operate simultaneously (although they shouldn't anyway)

Sorry dinners ready, gotta go

 

[Jord]

Thanks for your replies fellas.

I hear what you are saying about the 5.5kw elements, this was one of the examples of the discrepancies between here and the US that I alluded to in the OP that is making this process so difficult for me. They seem to have 50amp supplies there too for dryers or something!

I would only be running our standard domestic 2400W elements, one in the HX and HLT, while the kettle is gas fired. I have a dedicated circuit for the system out in my shed, pretty sure its 10amp. Will that run both elements at once Trox?

Other than that, it is the ability to run the system in auto (BCS) or manual mode that I am aiming for like on HSB's system, but with outlets for HLT, HX and march pump. Actually HSB, I saw your setup on the HERMs thread, and nearly shot you a PM prior to starting this thread to ask whether you would mind posting a pic of the inside of your control box, so I'm glad to see you chiming in here! The manual bypass is what seems to complicate things, but it is a feature I would really like to include.

Trox, wish you were closer too mate, but thanks for your input! Can you tell me what the purpose of the contactors are in this situation? I have seen a few setups now that don't have them incorporated, and that only added to the confusion.

Thanks again lads.

Jord

 

[labels]

Remember that volts x amps = watts so with the US runiing 120v or thereabouts 5.5Kw US = 2.25Kw here, if that makes sense.


Steve

 

[Jord]

Remember that volts x amps = watts so with the US runiing 120v or thereabouts 5.5Kw US = 2.25Kw here, if that makes sense.


Steve

Hi Steve,

Yeah right, which ties in with what Trox was saying about the 2 120V phases compared to our single 240V. That actually really helps to explain the difference there, thanks guys.

 

[matho]

I fail to see how the Emergency stop is effective as it goes straight to earth and does not disconnect any equipment from supply...

Yeah when I saw that on an american homebrew website I thought WTF, looks like they are relying on the RCD to trip off the supply hence the emergency stop switch. I think it is stupid to rely on one safety device to do the job of another safety device. If you want an emergency stop switch get a contactor and a normally closed lactching switch.

cheers

 

[user 11978]

back from dinner

Unfortunately no you cant run both 2400w elements at the same time on a 10A supply...2*2400W equates to about 20amps, however if the cable out to your shed is 2.5mm (normal power cable) and is not surrounded by insulation I think it has a current carrying capacity of 23amps (again I would have to double check - Im not at home for a few days) giving you the ability to have the breaker replaced (by an electrician) with a 20A one provided this does not exceed the capacity of your switchboard.

After havin a bit more of a look at the diagram I understand how the E Stop operates but believe it to be an over complicated way of obtaining the desired result...I would move it inline with the incoming (before the connector block), use a N/C contact instead of the N/O contact and do away with the fuse and resistors

If you have any other questions Ill be happy to answer

 

[user 11978]

Sorry, didnt see the couple replies added while I posted...
Steve and Matho both correct B)

As far as I can see the contactors don't perform much of a role. They are a part of the system that provides the electrical interlock between the HLT and kettle (so both cant come on at the same time) but the middle contactor doesn't seem to have any use at all... it applies voltage to the coil constantly keeping the contacts closed permanently- there's no point.

 

[kelbygreen]

there are a few guys around your area I wont say names as such but just hope they see this thread. If you dont here from any of them then maybe PM me and I get in contact with them. I dont want to name names as I dont know if they want to get inbox full of crap from people if you know what I mean

I have no clue about this stuff, but matho knows his crap, he isnt local but will help. I know a guy close but cant speak for him so just wait by

 

[Doubleplugga]

I am going to need a 240v 30amp socket installed at my place for my electric set up mate. luckily my neighbour is a sparky and he said it might be a bit of work but shouldn't be a drama.

 

[Jord]

Hey Trox, how was dinner? :chug: Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread, and for your input. This info is gold, and I really appreciate it!

The shed wiring is fairly new, so I should be able to confirm what went in. I seem to remember it was thicker cable from the house board to the shed distribution box, and then he split it into two thinner runs from there for power and light. The RCD's for those two circuits inside the shed have 10kA and 30mA Trip printed on them if that helps. And good pick up with Matho on the E Stop. So rejigging that as you describe will actually simplify things a bit and do away with the fuse and resistors? And am I right in thinking that if I am not trying to isolate the elements as per the diagram, then the coils can be omitted as well? Phew, well I might not know jack **** about electricity, but I do know my way around CAD, so with all that on board I might have a crack at a revised diagram and come back to you all with it for comments.

Kelby, thanks for the heads up about your local mate. His input would be very welcome if he shows up on here, and depending how I go getting my head around all of this, I may hit you up for some contacts if he doesn't mind. I totally get not wanting to land him in the middle of my electrified **** fight!

Hi Cats. If I understand what Trox has been telling me correctly, there might be some scope to bump things up to 20A, but 30A sounds like a rewire! What are you running in your system, is that 3V all electric?

Thanks again to all who responded, I am feeling much happier about all this now, and am keen to get this project moving along again.

Cheers

Jord

 

[Doubleplugga]

Hi Jord. I will be building The Electric Brewery as per this website. http://theelectricbrewery.com/
Hoping the wiring wont be too big a task, My neighbour the sparky said my box was capable of it. as you will see from the web site it uses 2x5500W elements.
Haven't got the control panel yet, it will be my xmas present. Will be posting a thread on my build as I get the parts together mate.

 

[NickB]

Cats - I have a dedicated 32A outlet for my brewery - wiring is not complicated assuming you have space in your board etc.

Your sparky mate will be all over it - especially if you feed him beers

 

[Doubleplugga]

Tons of space in my board NickB. Neighbour is a top bloke who will work for beer!!

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah I planning a upgrade on my shed but plan a shed upgrade to so been putting it off one guy on this forum has helped me heaps in the info with no cost. Not the one near you jord but I know a few guys in here that are sparkies I also know guys I work with, So I know a few but getting a guy on here would be ideal as if your nice and they are nice they will help you out without the massive costs.

If you have any doubt get a pro to do it. I mean I can rough in wires if I know what specs I gotto run to but wiring it up I would get a mate that will suck on some beers and call it even or take home a carton Although the sparky at work fixed my hot water service for $50 and thats 1/4 of his call out fee

 

[jaypes]

Shouldnt be too hard to modify to Aus, a quick google about on http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic....=29&t=99984 and I found this:

http://www.walthersphotography.com/uploads...ing_diagram.jpg

 

[spog]

have a look at the home brew forum .co.uk how to build a pid controlbox. ....cheers.....spog.......

 

[Jord]

Thanks for all of your replies so far guys, and thanks to those who got in touch via PM offering their assistance! AHB has copped a bit of a **** canning of late, but I have had a great response to this thread from some very helpful and knowledgeable folk, and it has really helped to get me back on track with this project. A big thanks to the community

Cheers

Jord