Electric Advice

[the_fuzz]

Ok,

So I admit I am a tooltard and everything else that most men know about like electricty etc I am also crap at...... I am awesome at Rugby League B) but when it comes to mens stuff I am hopeless,

So anyway I have used all my tool brain power and installed a kettle element into an old coopers fermenter - I am actually proud of myself as it works

However, it is a 2200W element and I cannot get 20L up to a rolling boil, it basically gets to about 95-98 and then bubbles slightly but no rolling boil.

So now I was thinking of installing a second element - but I believe this would blow the safety swtich? Does anyone know a way I can put a 2nd element into it or use a handheld version without blowing the safety switch?

FYI - The circuit it is on, is only used for the garage and the pool filter. So generally when brewing there is only mayby a light and the element on the circuit, but the safety switch covers all the circuits on the premises - if this makes sense, so if I have the element switched on and then go inside and turn on the kettle, the safety switch goes off....... :angry:

Sorry for the long post, but as I said - I am a tool (All things men should know about) Tard

Cheers
Mick

 

[Barge]

G'day Mick,

I use the Plastic Bucket of Death as well (TM to someone on this forum - not sure who though) with two elements installed. I assumed it would trip the RCD as well so at my old place I made the effort to suss which powerpoints were on which circuit (houses usually have 2 power circuits - look in the circuit box). I ran an extension cord so that the elements were on different circuits.

Since moving though (and not being bothered to turn off a circuit and have to reset clocks etc) I just ran the elements from 2 diff powerpoints on opposite sides of the garage. Dunno if they were on sep cicuits or not but had a 90min rolling boil with 10% evap rate, no worries.

P.S. Offer to make SWMBO a coffee/tea before the boil to avoid any ill will about tying up the power

 

[Wortgames]

You need to run an extension lead from a second circuit. It's unlikely that all of your house's power points are on one 15A circuit, so try and identify how it is split up. If you are lucky there might be some clues in your fusebox.

What I would say is that I really wouldn't want to do a rolling boil of wort in a Cooper's fermenter. I used to use one as an HLT, with a 2400w element, and the thing got so soft when it was hot that I hated to be anywhere near it. Wort will get even hotter than water, and if you are talking about over 4000w of power going into it I'd be looking for something a bit more substantial.

Personally I don't think there's any substitute for a flame when it comes to boiling wort, but if you are insistent on using electrickery then it might be worth getting a sparky to install a 30A circuit for you. But the cost of that, plus a second element, plus a decent vessel, may well be the same as getting an aluminium pot and a propane burner. Keep the modified fermenter as an HLT.

 

[Sammus]

I am awesome at Rugby League B) but when it comes to mens stuff I am hopeless,

LLol :lol:

Anyway, on topic - insulate your HLT with a reject shop $5 camping mat or two, it'll help keep the heat in there and might make all the difference

 

[Barge]

I agree that the kettle certainly seems to soften up around the elements but i've brewed maybe a dozen now using the bucket with no signs that the seal around the element is getting any worse. Having said that though, I have taken to putting the lid on the kettle after the boil so I can No-Chill in the kettle. This is obviously to avoid having to attach a hose to the tap to move hot wort from a still hot kettle.

 

[domonsura]

Insulation, insulation and more insulation.........keep the heat you have before you throw any more at it......a 2200W element should be able to do it, but it will be losing far too much heat through the sides of the fermenter.
I'll echo the thoughts of those who wonder about boiling wort in plastic though, regardless of how many people are already doing it....mmmmmmmmm plasticiser infused beer...mmmmmmmmmm

 

[Barge]

....mmmmmmmmm plasticiser infused beer...mmmmmmmmmm

How much worse can this be than any leaching from the kettle the element was taken from? I'm aware the plastics are different but the fermenter is food grade plastic to begin with.

 

[brettprevans]

thats why i never buy a plastic kettle. stainless steel kettles all the way. even food grade plastics can release chemicals as not all of them are meant to be heated. ie clingwrap is food grade plastic but would you heat it up and leave it in your beer.....? hell no.

that being said, if thats what you want to do thats your choice. my advice is the same as above, insulate it and it should keep a lot of the heat in and then you shouldnt have a problem. insulate the bottom as well. no point trying to get a rolling boil if the fermentor is on cold concrete.

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

How much worse can this be than any leaching from the kettle the element was taken from? I'm aware the plastics are different but the fermenter is food grade plastic to begin with.

I drink heaps more beer than coffee , and water is only boiled for 1-2mins befor it shuts off...

Go Stainless ........ h34r:




You know you want too.....

 

[Barge]

Go Stainless ........ h34r:
You know you want too.....

I can't deny the attraction of big shiny objects... but can I go without beer so I can buy one?

 

[barneyhanway]

I'll repeat, insulation, insulation, insulation. And put a lid on it until it boils, _then_ remove.

 

[the_fuzz]

Cheers All,

The issue with using a 2nd power point of a different circuit - is when I do this, my safety switch still goes?

I had a sparky come out about 3 months ago as after we moved in we discovered there was only 1 circuit throught the property, So I had the house split into 2 and then the garage and pool on a 3rd.

But it appears that all 3 circuits run to the same safety switch? Does that make sense?

So if I turn the kettle on in the house and then the HLT on in the garage, the safety switch goes off?

I will give the insulation a go this weekend for my 2nd AG B) Any recommendations for good (cheapish) insulation?

 

[crozdog]

Cheers All,

The issue with using a 2nd power point of a different circuit - is when I do this, my safety switch still goes?

I had a sparky come out about 3 months ago as after we moved in we discovered there was only 1 circuit throught the property, So I had the house split into 2 and then the garage and pool on a 3rd.

But it appears that all 3 circuits run to the same safety switch? Does that make sense?

So if I turn the kettle on in the house and then the HLT on in the garage, the safety switch goes off?

I will give the insulation a go this weekend for my 2nd AG B) Any recommendations for good (cheapish) insulation?

It makes perfect sense. 1 safety switch can be configured to cover multiple circuits. That's how the 1 in my place is configured. I haven't yet checked out if my 50l electric HLT will trip it (new install) but I know the hlt trips a mates safety switch I gotta get an unprotected circuit installed in the shed for important stuff like brewing & welding

Re insulation: eva camp mats can be picked up cheap from lots of places. I got a huge roll of foil backed bubble wrap from Reverse Garbage in Marrickville for $5. kept my monsta tun at over 70 for 1.5 hours after the sparge :beerbang:

 

[the_fuzz]

It makes perfect sense. 1 safety switch can be configured to cover multiple circuits. That's how the 1 in my place is configured. I haven't yet checked out if my 50l electric HLT will trip it (new install) but I know the hlt trips a mates safety switch I gotta get an unprotected circuit installed in the shed for important stuff like brewing & welding

Re insulation: eva camp mats can be picked up cheap from lots of places. I got a huge roll of foil backed bubble wrap from Reverse Garbage in Marrickville for $5. kept my monsta tun at over 70 for 1.5 hours after the sparge :beerbang:

Thanks Mate,

i was hoping to grab something from bunnings re: insulation as i have to go there on Saturday anyway - anyone know if there is anything good for insulationa at bunnings

Cheers
Mick

 

[rustie]

Cheers All,

The issue with using a 2nd power point of a different circuit - is when I do this, my safety switch still goes?

I had a sparky come out about 3 months ago as after we moved in we discovered there was only 1 circuit throught the property, So I had the house split into 2 and then the garage and pool on a 3rd.

But it appears that all 3 circuits run to the same safety switch? Does that make sense?

So if I turn the kettle on in the house and then the HLT on in the garage, the safety switch goes off?

I will give the insulation a go this weekend for my 2nd AG B) Any recommendations for good (cheapish) insulation?

A safety switch will only trip if there is an inbalance of current in the active & neutral wires. Domestic is usually a difference of .03 of an amp. This will occur if wiring gets damp or wet or some part of the body touches the active wiring(electric shock). The safety switch has a current rating, but it does not trip with excessive current, that job is for the circuit breakers. Too much current will trip a circuit breaker, not the safety switch.

Cheers Rustie

 

[65bellett]

Could any one show me some photos of this conversoin. I like the idea of working with plastic as opposed to trying to work with stainless.

 

[the_fuzz]

Could any one show me some photos of this conversoin. I like the idea of working with plastic as opposed to trying to work with stainless.

I took pics during the creation with the intention of posting them - never got around to it.

I will upload them tonight.

I just pulled the kettle apart, used a hole saw and then put the element in. I used a cordless kettle as the connection fits a standard PC power cable.

I will post pics

 

[braufrau]

thats why i never buy a plastic kettle. stainless steel kettles all the way. even food grade plastics can release chemicals as not all of them are meant to be heated. ie clingwrap is food grade plastic but would you heat it up and leave it in your beer.....? hell no.

Clingwrap is a good example. It is food grade plastic that was not intended to be heated. When
microwaves came along they had to change the formulation. Fermenters are food grade at ambient
temperature. At 100C ... who knows!

 

[tangent]

that can of worms has well and truly been opened in the No Chill threads.

 

[braufrau]

that can of worms has well and truly been opened in the No Chill threads.

But if you siphon boiling wort into a cube it wont be at 100C. More like 70C.