Efficiency

[manticle]

I make joke.

Funny joke.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

404 THATS AN ERROR. I giggled.
Its too reliant on reliable internet manticle. I Think I get it but the new forum change en all the internet you get messages like that that all the time. Which is just as appropriate in a satire way....

 

[UsernameTaken]

Sorry guys, I missed these replies. I understand now I am 77% in the kettle and 55% in the brew house!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[klangers]

Yeah it's funny how your efficiency can suddenly improve when the right measurements are used to calculate it... Same thing happened to me - my volume etchings were wrong

 

[Matplat]

You obviously haven't been reading brulosophy.

Check out this exbeeriment: http//www.brulosophy.com/brewertakesshitinkettleandonlyoneintwelvetastersnotice/freebeer

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..... bloody awesome! Actually did laugh out loud!

 

[GalBrew]

I make joke.

Funny joke.

Quite funny! Although I think you could take a dump straight into the tasting cups and most tasters wouldn't pick up on it!

 

[manticle]

That's part II

 

[UsernameTaken]

Ok, took all my wort from the kettle less about a litre and now I have trub up to the 8 litre mark on my fermenter!

 

[TwoCrows]

It will settle and compact, the fermentation will cake on top. All good.

I have noticed that my last three mashes have been down by at least 4 points. Their seams to be a lot of sticks and crap in my grain bills, not all of it grain. Maybe cut with horse food?

 

[UsernameTaken]

Cold crashed 48 hours ago and still at the 8 litre mark!

 

[Jack of all biers]

You have to supply more than that if you want a credible answer. What went into the kettle (hops, fruit etc)? You BIAB, but what was the recipe? How clear is the liquor from your mash to the kettle? Picture of the cold crashed fermentor might help also.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Yeah, the issue that started this thread was my efficiency being so low and we traced it to the 5 or more litres I was leaving behind in the kettle.

So now I have gone to the other extreme and I am loosing 8 litres to the fermenter!

So it seems a good portion of the wort is doomed to remain either in the kettle or the fermenter?

 

[MHB]

5-10% loss in the kettle is pretty standard, in fact it's beneficial.
In BIAB it can easily be more, especially if you mill very fine (lots of flour), use crap malt or lots of unmalted adjunct, have a short <60minute boil, have a less than intensive enough boil (you need to be getting 10% evaporation), are using lots of hops, Too little Calciun misusing or not using a good kettle fining, cant tell the difference between Hot and Cold break. No doubt there are a few other factors worth looking at but their the big ones.

If the wort going into the cube is clear, then trub forms as it cools - that's cold break and you needn't worry about it - its yeast nutrient and fine to add to the fermenter.
Electric urns are often a little under powered, try wrapping an old towel around it during the boil or some other insulation, push your boil out to 90 minutes and have a look at the rest of the big factors that effect trub formation and separation.
Mark

 

[UsernameTaken]

Thanks Mark, that is a really helpful reply!

When I was leaving 5 litres behind in the kettle everything else was fine, I was just surprised my efficiency was only 55% and wondered what I was doing wrong?

Everyone then said they leave much less than that behind and I was wasting good wort so I took more and it it still gets wasted in the fermenter!

So I think I will go back to my old calculations and not worry about my efficiency.

Out of interest, what will longer boil achieve?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Jack of all biers]

So I think I will go back to my old calculations and not worry about my efficiency.

Out of interest, what will longer boil achieve?

Cheers,
UNT

Lots of stuff. Read these for some relevant stuff that may help your trub issues. Originally posted by MHB sometime ago, then again and again and again..... So he can take the credit for sharing these in the first place.

I've thrown in the Mash separation systems, just so you can read about how different systems of separating the wort have different impacts. Otherwise it's not really that applicable to BIAB, but the point is; clear wort into the kettle reduces trub and will improve your 'efficiencies' down the line.

EDIT - It's the totality of the individual components of the brewery system that is the measure of efficiency. The equipment used likely has a larger effect on the various 'efficiencies' along the way, more so than the ingredients or technique (temp, timings or method). I'm not saying ignore technique or quality ingredients, just that if efficiency is your measure of success, you can have a great knowledge and technique, but your equipment may hold back that 10-15% in efficiency to the fermentor (or even to the packaging)

EDIT - Spellink

 

[MHB]

Higher molecular weight protein tends to coagulate first, we want to precipitate as much of the high MW protein as we can and some of the medium weight as well a bunch of other reactions that take place in the kettle.
As above an urn is often not really powerful enough to achieve all the goals of a boil in 60 minutes, so boiling longer will do a better job. I was talking to a couple of commercial brewers the other night, they are doing 75 to 90 minute boils on systems with way more power than home brewers use.
Its worth remembering that only a few years ago, two hour boils were standard, home brewers tend to try and cut corners, save time and money... rather than focus on making the best beer they can.
Personally if I'm using Maris Otter I do a 120 minute boil, if you want to know why try it and see the difference.

Posted this plenty of times before, but it's a good basic introduction to what goes on in the kettle
Mark

Edit
Teach me to type slowly JOAB has already attached, and a lot more - all good reading
M

 

[Jack of all biers]

Speed typist, that's me. That's why I need to go back to add and edit all the time.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Excellent information guys, thank you. 90 minute boil it is today!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[koshari]

Thanks, I am a tight arse Pome

noticed that by the incorrect spelling of "coathanger" in your handle

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

noticed that by the incorrect spelling of "coathanger" in your handle

Thanks for noticing. I used to run a New Zealand flag on another stralian forum, it was years before one of the kiwis there asked me where i was from.

Sid