Efficiency - Is It My Manifold Or Otherwise

[thunderchild]

Group,

I currently have a 50L esky as my mash tun with a loop of Stainless braid on the bottom. Two brews ago I achieve an attrocious efficiency of 58.7%. I'll say up front that it is not my life's objective to pull a huge efficiency but to me 70 - 80 seems to indicate that I would be doing something right.

Upon reviewing my Brew since I have changed mash tuns my braid has developed a mind of it's own and rises from the bottom of the esky in parts.

Last brew was a little better with 69.8 when I was planning for 70.

What I did different was:

1 - slowed the sparge down
2 - stirred the mash more frequently

My thoughts are now do I:

1 - Live with 70%
2 - silicon the braid down to the bottom of the esky to mximise grain depth
3 - Look at a different Manifold design.

If I go with option 3 bear in mind that I am talentless in the world of design so anything that involves cutting, soldering, welding etc is a big ask.

Any Thoughts?

 

[muckey]

did a double batch yesterday.

55l esky tun with ss braid.

efficiency was 78% so I dont think equipment is your isue

mashed in and stirred well at the beginning, measured the temp of the grain bed - only .1 degree difference over the bed

left the mash for 75 minutes and then batch sparged

 

[BoilerBoy]

Your grain crush will normally be the the biggest determining factor in efficiency.

What are you using to Crush your grain?

Cheers,
BB

 

[thunderchild]

Your grain crush will normally be the the biggest determining factor in efficiency.

What are you using to Crush your grain?

Cheers,
BB

Getting it milled and mixed at purchase, same supplier for both examples so I'm not sure that the crush is the culprit.

 

[Ronin]

Group,

I currently have a 50L esky as my mash tun with a loop of Stainless braid on the bottom. Two brews ago I achieve an attrocious efficiency of 58.7%. I'll say up front that it is not my life's objective to pull a huge efficiency but to me 70 - 80 seems to indicate that I would be doing something right.

Upon reviewing my Brew since I have changed mash tuns my braid has developed a mind of it's own and rises from the bottom of the esky in parts.

Last brew was a little better with 69.8 when I was planning for 70.

What I did different was:

1 - slowed the sparge down
2 - stirred the mash more frequently

My thoughts are now do I:

1 - Live with 70%
2 - silicon the braid down to the bottom of the esky to mximise grain depth
3 - Look at a different Manifold design.

If I go with option 3 bear in mind that I am talentless in the world of design so anything that involves cutting, soldering, welding etc is a big ask.

Any Thoughts?

Hi Thunderchild,

not sure if I missed it, was that efficiency into the kettle or into the fermenter?

If it's into the kettle, then I'd say it's the grain crush. If I buy grain from Grain and Grape I get 65%, if I get it from Craftbrewer I get 80%

If it's into the fermenter, then have a look at your deadspaces. If you leave 2L in the kettle of a 20L batch, that's 10% efficiency right there. I picked up a huge 10% increase in brewhouse efficiency simply by whirlpooling and fitting a pickup tube.

Edit: just reread your post, I bought a Beerbelly false bottom manifold thing and that worked well. So if you go option 3 have a look at his website.

James

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Have a look at this - a little technical - but it'll give you some food for though

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title...ding_Efficiency

Cheers

 

[thunderchild]

Thanks,

Into the fermenter.

Have been whirlpooling and then using a racking cane. (Cause I'm too scared to cut a hole in my kettle :unsure: )

 

[Ronin]

Thanks,

Into the fermenter.

Have been whirlpooling and then using a racking cane. (Cause I'm too scared to cut a hole in my kettle :unsure: )

I was the same way (scared that is), just go get a good hole saw for cutting metal, add some oil and have at it. That's what I did and it worked well.

What's your efficiency into the kettle? If you don't know take a gravity reading and adjust for temp. That'll tell you if it's the grain crush or if you're losing wort somewhere else in the system

If you're getting 75-80% into the kettle, it's not the crush and you need to look elsewhere.

How much wort is left in the kettle after you've drained it?

Edit: and 70% brewhouse efficiency isn't that bad IMHO. I'm quite happy with 70-75% into the fermenter. When people are talkig about huge efficiences, I think they're generally talking about mash efficiency (into the kettle), you'll always lose some wort in the kettle, when racking etc. That effects brewhouse efficiency.

 

[warra48]

If it is efficiency into the fermenter, then you are only about 10 points or so off where you have a reasonable result.

Without knowing what your efficiency was into the kettle, it's a bit hard to say whether it's your equipment or your mashing.

 

[BoilerBoy]

I use a 55L esky with a braid and consistently get 80%.

I used to always average 65%, then bought a mill and gradually narrowed the gap and my effiency went up.

Then increased it a point or two more by doing to separate sparges, but its the crush (gap setting) that will make the biggest difference.

BB

 

[white.grant]

I could be wrong, but 69% into the fermenter is fairly good.

cheers

grant

 

[PostModern]

Your grain crush will normally be the the biggest determining factor in efficiency.

Not on its own, it won't. I get 80% efficiency by just breaking the grain into three parts and minimal flour, most of the kernel held inside the husk. But I mash differently to most, even tho I have a "textbook" Palmer manifold. Give the same crush to a 20 minute batch sparger and he'll be lucky to hit 40%. I reckon I could get 80% using thunderchild's rig and my crush with my methods.

One thing never stands in isolation in brewing.

 

[thunderchild]

If it is efficiency into the fermenter, then you are only about 10 points or so off where you have a reasonable result.

Without knowing what your efficiency was into the kettle, it's a bit hard to say whether it's your equipment or your mashing.

According to Beersmith

71.4% into boiler

66.42 into fermenter

Overall efficiency 69.43

I stress that it is not my lifes ambition to achieve a world record here. With big beers it can get expensive on the grain bill.

 

[Ronin]

If it is efficiency into the fermenter, then you are only about 10 points or so off where you have a reasonable result.

Without knowing what your efficiency was into the kettle, it's a bit hard to say whether it's your equipment or your mashing.

I think 70% into the fermenter isn't too bad at all. If you get 80 into the fermenter, then you'd be getting almost 90+ out of the mash. That's some good mashing.

 

[Ronin]

According to Beersmith

71.4% into boiler

66.42 into fermenter

Overall efficiency 69.43

I stress that it is not my lifes ambition to achieve a world record here. With big beers it can get expensive on the grain bill.

Where are you getting the grain crushed? You could probably get at least another 5% out of the mash tun.

How are you sparging? Batch or Fly?

I'd definately recommend getting a pickup tube in your kettle. I leave less than 1L behind now, really bumped up the efficiency. How much are you leaving behind?

EDIT: Just had a thought...you might want to consider a hop bag for the kettle. I found all that hop trub when you whirlpool takes up a lot of space.

 

[thunderchild]

Where are you getting the grain crushed? You could probably get at least another 5% out of the mash tun.

How are you sparging? Batch or Fly?

I'd definately recommend getting a pickup tube in your kettle. I leave less than 1L behind now, really bumped up the efficiency. How much are you leaving behind?

EDIT: Just had a thought...you might want to consider a hop bag for the kettle. I found all that hop trub when you whirlpool takes up a lot of space.

Like the hop bag Idea, I have not considered it.

I am batch sparging (School of no moving parts)

I know I am going to have to face cutting into my kettle at some point, I'm just scared..... :icon_vomit:

 

[chappo1970]

...bear in mind that I am talentless in the world of design so anything that involves cutting, soldering, welding etc is a big ask.

That's a bit harsh on yourself thunders

I know I am going to have to face cutting into my kettle at some point, I'm just scared..... :icon_vomit:

Ok thunderchild I see your nearish to me at Tamborine. You must occasionally go thru Beenleigh or Waterford huh? PM me with your mobile/contact number and I will give you my contact details to get that hole sorted out for ya mate. I will take the responsiblity to cut that hole or if you feel confident there's a whole bloody workshop full of drill presses, plama cutters, mig tig welders, oxy/ace torches to play with... Jeeze your a fellow AHBer for christ sake

Best thing is I work for beer!