Dortmunder

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Quick thinking Pumpy... Lucky for you!

I'm thinking similar to what GB said for mine but maybe with less IBUs (around 30) and less late hop. My last addition will probably be 15 mins from flameout.

I was thinking roughly

85% Pils
10% Munich I
5% Carapils or Carahell

OG 1.055


Warren -

Yep less hops for bigger water.It should show some of the mineral content but not be harsh.Hard bugger to nail but worth the effort.
GB

 

[Pumpy]

Quick thinking Pumpy... Lucky for you!

I'm thinking similar to what GB said for mine but maybe with less IBUs (around 30) and less late hop. My last addition will probably be 15 mins from flameout.

I was thinking roughly

85% Pils
10% Munich I
5% Carapils or Carahell

OG 1.055


Warren -

Warren which yeast were you planning to use ,as they say its all about the yeast ?

Pumpy

 

[warrenlw63]

Wyeast 2042 Danish B)

The blurb says a Dortmunder strain. We shall see.

Warren -

 

[newguy]

I took my 1st ever best of show at my club's comp at the end of May with this Dort. If I brew it again, I'll reduce the bitterness from ~26 IBU to about 23 and double the Burton water salts I added to the mash.

10 gallon (~42l finished volume, ~80% efficiency)
4.12kg 2 row (50%)
4.02kg special pale (50%) - just a hair darker than ordinary pale 2 row
1/4 tsp Burton water salts
51g German Tettnang pellets (2.3%) mash hopped
82g US Hallertau pellets (4.0%) mash hopped

Mashed on my HERMS: 30l tap water + 3ml 88% lactic acid + 1/2 campden tablet infused @158F. Mash set temp 154F 60 min, then ramped to 167F & drained. 35l tap water + 3.5ml lactic acid + the other 1/2 of the campden tablet @ 167F infused, recirculated until the mash came back up to 167F, then drained.

120 min boil; my boil is usually 90 minutes, but the outside temperature was lower than anticipated and the wind was howling that day, so I had to extend the boil to get close to my normal evaporation.

40g Target pellets (10.0%) 120 minutes

Wyeast 2112 California lager pitched @ 54F.
OG 1.048
FG 1.015
~26 IBU

Fermented @59-60F for 1st week, then allowed to warm to 67F for a further 2 weeks before kegging. Been lagering in the keg ever since.

 

[Pumpy]

I took my 1st ever best of show at my club's comp at the end of May with this Dort. If I brew it again, I'll reduce the bitterness from ~26 IBU to about 23 and double the Burton water salts I added to the mash.

10 gallon (~42l finished volume, ~80% efficiency)
4.12kg 2 row (50%)
4.02kg special pale (50%) - just a hair darker than ordinary pale 2 row
1/4 tsp Burton water salts
51g German Tettnang pellets (2.3%) mash hopped
82g US Hallertau pellets (4.0%) mash hopped

Mashed on my HERMS: 30l tap water + 3ml 88% lactic acid + 1/2 campden tablet infused @158F. Mash set temp 154F 60 min, then ramped to 167F & drained. 35l tap water + 3.5ml lactic acid + the other 1/2 of the campden tablet @ 167F infused, recirculated until the mash came back up to 167F, then drained.

120 min boil; my boil is usually 90 minutes, but the outside temperature was lower than anticipated and the wind was howling that day, so I had to extend the boil to get close to my normal evaporation.

40g Target pellets (10.0%) 120 minutes

Wyeast 2112 California lager pitched @ 54F.
OG 1.048
FG 1.015
~26 IBU

Fermented @59-60F for 1st week, then allowed to warm to 67F for a further 2 weeks before kegging. Been lagering in the keg ever since.

NewGuy,

What are Burton Salts are they Epsom Salts ?

Pumpy :unsure:

 

[newguy]

It appears as if it depends on the brand. This one contains potassium chloride, epsom salts and gypsum. The stuff I have, from Vine-Pro, lists calcium sulphate and magnesium sulphate as the ingredients. From what I can gather at the moment, it doesn't seem like Vine-Pro exists anymore. Which makes sense, since I think I bought this stuff about the time I started homebrewing in 1996.

 

[therook]

It appears as if it depends on the brand. This one contains potassium chloride, epsom salts and gypsum. The stuff I have, from Vine-Pro, lists calcium sulphate and magnesium sulphate as the ingredients. From what I can gather at the moment, it doesn't seem like Vine-Pro exists anymore. Which makes sense, since I think I bought this stuff about the time I started homebrewing in 1996.

Does this stuff assume that your house water is already at a certain level of minerals to get the desired Burtonised water

Rook

 

[newguy]

I don't think so. If you want to completely replicate Dortmund's water you'd have to get much more accurate/technical. My tap water is moderate-low hardness, so I just used a bit of the stuff to get it a bit harder. I'm not concerned with matching the water's characteristics exactly - I just wanted to give the finished beer a bit more of a mineral bite. This stuff is pretty generic.

I think that the BJCP website might have more technical water matching information.....I seem to remember one of the BJCP's executive developing a waters of the world toolkit or something like that.

 

[SJW]

I am going to give this one a go (after July) I am not sure about the hopping shedule.


Dortmunder
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 32.05 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5000.00 gm Premium Pilsner (Weyermann) (2.2 EBC) Grain 86.21 %
500.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 8.62 %
150.00 gm Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 2.59 %
150.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.59 %
20.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 16.7 IBU
50.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (20 min) Hops 11.9 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
yeast? maybe s-189 or 2206 Wyeast


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.43 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 %
Bitterness: 28.6 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l
Est Color: 9.7 EBC Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 5800.00 gm
Sparge Water: 12.86 L Grain Temperature: 15.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 76.0 C TunTemperature: 15.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 73.5 C 66.0 C
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 93.2 C 76.0 C

 

[Pumpy]

I am going to give this one a go (after July) I am not sure about the hopping shedule.


Dortmunder
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 32.05 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5000.00 gm Premium Pilsner (Weyermann) (2.2 EBC) Grain 86.21 %
500.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 8.62 %
150.00 gm Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 2.59 %
150.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.59 %
20.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 16.7 IBU
50.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (20 min) Hops 11.9 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
yeast? maybe s-189 or 2206 Wyeast


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.43 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 %
Bitterness: 28.6 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l
Est Color: 9.7 EBC Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 5800.00 gm
Sparge Water: 12.86 L Grain Temperature: 15.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 76.0 C TunTemperature: 15.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 73.5 C 66.0 C
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 93.2 C 76.0 C

Hey SJW I notice you use the PH 5.2 Stabilizer .

Dortmund water profile has a PH of 8.00 but then they may still add some thing to correct thier PH

pumpy

 

[matti]

Would acidualted malt, say 5%, be enough to adjust ph of mash if you adjust water with some a dash of epsom salt and gypsum?

 

[newguy]

Gypsum drops the pH on its own. Only use acidulated malt if your brewing water's pH is above 7, otherwise you'll end up with a lager version of Berlinner Weisse if you use too much. Don't alter your water treatment and start with 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of some kind of powdered water salts (Burton or otherwise) and adjust on subsequent brews. I can taste the mineral character of a DAB Export and while my version does have a hard-to-put-your-finger-on character, thankfully it's not nearly as strong as DAB.

 

[T.D.]

Hey newguy, did you find the mash hopping contributed much flavour/aroma to the final beer?

 

[geoffi]

This might be of interest.

It is from 'the horse's mouth', so to speak:

in the history the water in Dortmund was characterized in the manner you described below.

Nowadays we use soft water with less than 60 mg/l calcium. The content of Sulphur ions is below 40 mg/l.

This water is very suitable for the pale lagers (pilsener style and export style) we produce in Dortmund.

Best regards

Johannes Jung
Leiter Technologie und Qualittssicherung
0231-8400-411
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Skalli, Gabriele
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2007 13:12
An: Jung, Johannes
Betreff: WG: Kontaktformular DAB.de}

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic....6bf595e78a232be

 

[newguy]

Hey newguy, did you find the mash hopping contributed much flavour/aroma to the final beer?

Absolutely. The aroma is definitely there, but not in your face like dry hopping tends to be. The hop flavour is definitely there, but is softer than late kettle additions. For quite a while I counted my mash hop additions as being equivalent to a 7 minute kettle addition for calculating IBU level, but I'm going to adjust that to about 12 minutes for the next few beers as the ones I produced over this last year turned out a wee bit too bitter for my calcs. Definitely try mash hopping, though. I'm gradually turning my friends onto it. The reaction is universal though - people can't believe the rich hop aroma and flavour isn't from late kettle additions.

 

[Pumpy]

This might be of interest.

It is from 'the horse's mouth', so to speak:

in the history the water in Dortmund was characterized in the manner you described below.

Nowadays we use soft water with less than 60 mg/l calcium. The content of Sulphur ions is below 40 mg/l.

This water is very suitable for the pale lagers (pilsener style and export style) we produce in Dortmund.

Best regards

Johannes Jung
Leiter Technologie und Qualittssicherung
0231-8400-411
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Skalli, Gabriele
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2007 13:12
An: Jung, Johannes
Betreff: WG: Kontaktformular DAB.de}

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic....6bf595e78a232be

One piece pulled from all the links there

How they amended distilled water that looks simple enough
quote

"Water: Each 5-gallon fraction of reverse-osmosisfiltered or distilled water (i.e. soft water) is amended with:

31.2 grams gypsum,
11.04 grams sodium chloride (we like kosher salt as it is relatively pure and inexpensive),
13.2 grams calcium chloride.

The mineral salts will dissolve best when the water is heated, as in a mash or lauter state. "


Pumpy

 

[crozdog]

As interesting as this thread has become, I believe it has gone :icon_offtopic: from Pumpy's original post. B)

It's about time we returned to the essence of the OP h34r:

Crozdog

 

[Pumpy]

The three yeasts that Wyeat have in thier range that they say can be used for Dortmunder are

2000 Budvar

2042 Danish lager

2124 Bohemian lager

Pumpy

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

The three yeasts that Wyeat have in thier range that they say can be used for Dortmunder are

2000 Budvar

2042 Danish lager

2124 Bohemian lager

Pumpy

I have used the 2042 with some good results , the rest I havent tried in a Dortmunder.
GB

 

[Pumpy]

I have used the 2042 with some good results , the rest I havent tried in a Dortmunder.
GB

GB I think that 2024 Danish lager yeast is favourite at the moment

Pumpy