Doppelbock

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manticle

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I searched through the threads in flavour of the week and couldn't find a doppelbock one.

Anyone got any tried and true recipes?

These pages from BYO have some interesting tips:

http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styles/art...le-of-the-month

http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styles/art...s-from-the-pros

here's the BJCP style guide version:

5C. Doppelbock
Aroma: Very strong maltiness. Darker versions will have significant melanoidins and often some toasty aromas. A light caramel flavor from a long boil is acceptable. Lighter versions will have a strong malt presence with some melanoidins and toasty notes. Virtually no hop aroma, although a light noble hop aroma is acceptable in pale versions. No diacetyl. A moderately low fruity aspect to the aroma often described as prune, plum or grape may be present (but is optional) in dark versions due to reactions between malt, the boil, and aging. A very slight chocolate-like aroma may be present in darker versions, but no roasted or burned aromatics should ever be present. Moderate alcohol aroma may be present.

Appearance: Deep gold to dark brown in color. Darker versions often have ruby highlights. Lagering should provide good clarity. Large, creamy, persistent head (color varies with base style: white for pale versions, off-white for dark varieties). Stronger versions might have impaired head retention, and can display noticeable legs.

Flavor: Very rich and malty. Darker versions will have significant melanoidins and often some toasty flavors. Lighter versions will a strong malt flavor with some melanoidins and toasty notes. A very slight chocolate flavor is optional in darker versions, but should never be perceived as roasty or burnt. Clean lager flavor with no diacetyl. Some fruitiness (prune, plum or grape) is optional in darker versions. Invariably there will be an impression of alcoholic strength, but this should be smooth and warming rather than harsh or burning. Presence of higher alcohols (fusels) should be very low to none. Little to no hop flavor (more is acceptable in pale versions). Hop bitterness varies from moderate to moderately low but always allows malt to dominate the flavor. Most versions are fairly sweet, but should have an impression of attenuation. The sweetness comes from low hopping, not from incomplete fermentation. Paler versions generally have a drier finish.

Mouthfeel: Medium-full to full body. Moderate to moderately-low carbonation. Very smooth without harshness or astringency.

Overall Impression: A very strong and rich lager. A bigger version of either a traditional bock or a helles bock.

Comments: Most versions are dark colored and may display the caramelizing and melanoidin effect of decoction mashing, but excellent pale versions also exist. The pale versions will not have the same richness and darker malt flavors of the dark versions, and may be a bit drier, hoppier and more bitter. While most traditional examples are in the ranges cited, the style can be considered to have no upper limit for gravity, alcohol and bitterness (thus providing a home for very strong lagers). Any fruitiness is due to Munich and other specialty malts, not yeast-derived esters developed during fermentation.

History: A Bavarian specialty first brewed in Munich by the monks of St. Francis of Paula. Historical versions were less well attenuated than modern interpretations, with consequently higher sweetness and lower alcohol levels (and hence was considered "liquid bread" by the monks). The term "doppel (double) bock" was coined by Munich consumers. Many doppelbocks have names ending in "-ator," either as a tribute to the prototypical Salvator or to take advantage of the beer's popularity.

Ingredients: Pils and/or Vienna malt for pale versions (with some Munich), Munich and Vienna malts for darker ones and occasionally a tiny bit of darker color malts (such as Carafa). Noble hops. Water hardness varies from soft to moderately carbonate. Clean lager yeast. Decoction mashing is traditional.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.072 1.112 IBUs: 16 26 FG: 1.016 1.024 SRM: 6 25 ABV: 7 10% Commercial Examples: Paulaner Salvator, Ayinger Celebrator, Weihenstephaner Korbinian, Andechser Doppelbock Dunkel, Spaten Optimator, Tucher Bajuvator, Weltenburger Kloster Asam-Bock, Capital Autumnal Fire, EKU 28, Eggenberg Urbock 23, Bell's Consecrator, Moretti La Rossa, Samuel Adams Double Bock
and here's my intended recipe (critique welcome) based heavily on the first ideas and recipe in the second BYO article


Type: All grain
Size: 22 liters
Color: 38 HCU (~18 SRM)
Bitterness: 27 IBU
OG: 1.072
FG: 1.018
Alcohol: 6.7% v/v (5.3% w/w)
Grain: 1.5kg Weyermann Pilsner
1.5kg Weyermann Vienna
4kg Weyermann Munich
50g Weyermann Carafa II
Mash: 70% efficiency
TEMP: 48/62/70/77
TIME: 15/20/20/10
Boil: 180 minutes, SG 1.047 34 liters
Hops: 60g Saaz (3.75% AA, 60 min.)

2 Decoctions

Yeast cake from Wy Oktoberfest

Calcium Chloride as necessary.
 

manticle

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Just a weeny little bump.

Surely someone out of 20,000+ members has brewed a successful doppelbock before?
 

raven19

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My first one is approaching the end of primary ferment fella. Will need to sample prior to bottling and report back!
 

tallie

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I'm not an expert on brewing one by a long shot, but Doppelbock is one of my favourite styles to drink.

I personally would replace the Pils & Vienna with all Munich base malt, but they may have a place in your decoction process (I've only ever done single infusion mashes, using Melanoidin malt to attempt to replicate decoction flavours). I'd also use a German hop, but at 60mins, Saaz will probably be fine.

This is a recipe I brewed in mid-2010 (based on this recipe), which medaled Silver and Bronze in the 2011 QABC and AABC respectively:

Wey. Munich I: 85%
Australian Light Munich: 10%
Wey. Melanoidin: 4%
Wey. Carafa II: 1%

Single infusion mash at 68C for 1hr

2hr Boil
Hallertau Hersbrucker: 16IBU* at -60mins

OG: 1.074

Fermented with S189 at 11C for 16 days
FG: 1.022


*IBUs calculated using Tinseth, and doesn't account for no-chilling.

My latest batch that is currently reaching the end of lagering uses all Weyermann Munich malt, German Northern Brewer for bittering, and White Labs German Bock yeast. As per raven19, I'll try to remember to report back here when I've tried it!

Cheers,
tallie

Edit: more details
 

manticle

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Cheers Tallie.

Initially I was going to go for Hallertauer mittelfruh (may still do so as I think I have some in my stocks) but the saaz is a consideration due to the fact I recently bought a nice amount of fresh CZ saaz. If I think the HM is fresh enough, I may go for that and save the saaz for an upcoming bo pils (not that I need to save it - got plenty)

I had considered 100% munich, 50:50 munich/vienna and had also previously considered some caramunich I in there too. The end result I want to be a bit chocolatey and a bit toasty, hence the vienna (and hopefully the decoctions). Colour with that bill and boil should be about right. Aiming for choc toast more than caramel, hence deciding not to use caramunich.
 

The_Duck

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Just a weeny little bump.

Surely someone out of 20,000+ members has brewed a successful doppelbock before?

Manticle... you should ask Andy D about successfully making a Doppelbock.

Muhahahahahaha :lol:


Like Raven19 my first ever Doppelbock is approaching the end of it's primary as we speak. It was a triple decocted jobby too. A whole freakin day to make so it damn well better be worth it !!

Fermenter samples so far appear promising :)


Duck
 

Andyd

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Yes - laugh while you can... the beer that is a mere shadow of what it should have been will be unveiled at the Club dinner, and then you'll see that your jest is closer to the truth than you would care to believe... :)

ANdy
 

barls

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josh has, well what i remember of it.
 

alfadog

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I have had two attempts at the dopplebock. Both were based on the recipe on the CB site.

The first attempt was done in my old 2V system and worked out perfectly.

The second attempt I tried to scale it down to brew in the BM, and added DME to get the OG required. It was OK but was nothing exciting.

I used WY2206 for the first brew and WY2633 for the second batch both were excellent yeasts IMO
 

manticle

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Brewing the above tomorrow hopefully but probably using hersbrucker plugs
 

brettprevans

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I've judged quite a few dopples. They are hard beers to nail. Beautiful beer style. Radical brewing has a couple it cracker recipes. Or I'd be tempted to modify brendos winning Bock recipe into a dopple.

Decoction highly recommended for complexity results. It's something a lot of comp entries are missing.
 

fraser_john

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I made a cracker based on the 2002 BYO recipe years ago, lagered it at 0c for 12 months, best lager I've ever made to date. My recipe for it can be found here

Hard to avoid the tempation to drink it before it is ready :)
 

manticle

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I'll possibly age mine in tapless demijohn.

Heating strike water at the moment but changed the mash schedule above a touch to reflect my usual stepping schedule. Protein rest for 10 minutes, alpha-amylase for 40 instead of 20 and 72 glycoprotein for 10 chucked in. Alpha rest at 68 instead of 70.
 

brettprevans

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protein rest for 10 minutes, alpha-amylase for 40 instead of 20 and 72 glycoprotein for 10 chucked in. Alpha rest at 68 instead of 70.
:icon_drool2: :lol:

happy brewing mants. let us know how you go. this thread almost convinced me to bring forward my dopplebock brewing plans, but it can stay where it is on the to do list. next brew is juniper rye bock. so kind of similar, and I might pinch your step mash schedule for the brew.
 

manticle

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Brewday went well. 3/12 hour boil and colour looks about right. 3 decoctions smelled great.

Ran off about 15 litres into a cube, another 2 into an erlenmeyer for a starter and another 2 or 3 of trubby wort that will be allowed to settle out and the clear stuff reboiled.

Fresh smack pack of bavarian lager into the starter this morning but I think I'm going to harvest 1/4 a cup or so of Oktoberfest yeast from a lagering cube to get enough yeast. I reckon the two strains will be friends.

Ferment out, lager then age in glass for a year - should be next year's winter warmer.
 

manticle

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Decided not to bulk age for a year - Racked following FG and lagered for a fair while. Bottled yesterday. Tasting promising - will crack the first in a couple of weeks then try and squirrel a few away from prying bottle openers.
 

brettprevans

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Sou.fd promising mants. Ill bring a samplw of my juniper rye bock to the next meeting. Needs more juniper i recon.
 

tallie

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Dave70's recent thread just reminded me that I never reported back on my last attempt. It ended up winning the Strong Lager category in the 2013 AABC, BUT, it was entered as a Traditional Bock. After assessing it and trying it side-by-side with Paulaner Salvator, it was lacking in the very strong malt character that is required by the guidelines and (IMO) exemplified by Salvator. It was obviously much more in the ball park for a Traditional Bock despite being over the ABV for the style.

The recipe was 95% Wey. Munich I, 4% Wey. Melanoidin (that I use in place of decocting) and 1% Wey. Carafa Special II. It was boiled for 2 hours and bittered with German Northern Brewer to 17 IBU (using the Tinseth formula, not accounting for no-chilling). Yeast was WLP833 German Bock.

Interestingly, I've since tried a Barley Wine that I made with only the first runnings of an all TF Floor Malted Maris Otter grist, and it reminded me of the Salvator! As a result, next time I brew a Doppelbock, I'm only going to use the equivalent of the first runnings of the mash (not sure how I'm going to do that with my BM yet; I'll probably just use less infusion water and avoid sparging).

Cheers,
tallie
 

manticle

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I never reported back either.

Unfortunately drank them all instead of aging as long as I had hoped. I moved house while bulk aging so ended up bottling soon after. Most were great, last one tasted mildly vegemitey.

Will repeat in a few weeks. Recipe and process definitely work (long boil etc).
 

tanukibrewer

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Gday Manticle/Tallie
How are your lastest Dopplebocks going?Have read the book Bock Classic Beer Styles by Darryl Richman and was thrown by the decotion methods and temp steps in the mashing as I usually just do single infusion.So thanks Tallie for the heads up on the use of Melanoidin malt instead of decotion.
Having an Octoberfest party again this year,will be serving a Kolsch and a Octoberfest/Marzen and now I am planing to do a Dopplebock.CheersMarzen.jpg
 

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