Does Anyone Know A Good Irish Red Recipe?

[opposition]

Would everyone please pick this one apart....

Looking for any feedback at all.

Cheers

Dean.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Celtic Red
Brewer: Dean McCarthy
Asst Brewer:
Style: Irish Red Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Boil Size: 45.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 28.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 66.67 %
1.40 kg Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain 16.97 %
0.60 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 7.27 %
0.60 kg Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC) Grain 7.27 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 1.82 %
32.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
30.00 gm Williamette [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (4 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 8.25 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 21.53 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Bribie G]

A bit hoppy for an Irish? According to style (if that's an issue at all) there should be little hop aroma and flavour, should be more malt based. I use a single bittering addition of 35-40g of the UK hop Admiral. Also if you are looking for red red red then sub a fair bit of the Carared with Caraaroma. :icon_drool2:

 

[benno1973]

Beer and Brewer have a Bridge Road Celtic Red recipe, by the brewer himself...

Recipe for 10HL

140kg MO
15kg CaraRed
15kg Melanoidin
15kg Pale Crystal
1-2kg Choc (optional)

Hops
Bittering: Northern Brewer 205g
Aroma: Willamette 405g @30mins
EKG or Fuggles 205g @ 4mins

Yeast: London Ale or similar

 

[opposition]

I based mine on exactly that.

Substituted the MO for the Pale and the Pale crystal with the Caramalt.

Was wondering more abouth the hops, as i would say this isnt exactly to "style" whilst being a top drop.

Dean

 

[Fourstar]

I think Pacman is just US-05 on steroids, or not.

The disagreement could be a potential argument that the flavor of Irish Red is more malt driven.

Turned out malty to me! Also, one of their flagship beers the dead guy 'ale' is a Maibock of sorts, its quite malty to me. Anyway mine had a decent maltiness to it. Also, on the Wyeast website its noted to be a fine yeast selection for a Irish Red. :icon_cheers:

Wyeast 1764-PC ROGUE Pacman Yeast
Beer Styles: American Pale Ale, American Amber Ale, American Brown Ale, Brown Porter, Cream Ale, Irish Red Ale, Strong Scotch Ale, Dry Stout, American Stout, Russian Imperial Stout, American IPA, Imperial IPA, American Barleywine, Fruit Beer, Spice/Herb/or Vegetable Beer, Christmas/Winter Specialty Spice Beer, Other Smoked Beer, Wood-Aged Beer
Profile: A versatile yeast strain from one of Oregons leading craft breweries. Pacman is alcohol tolerant, flocculent, attenuates well and will produce beers with little to no diacetyl. Very mild fruit complements a dry, mineral finish making this a fairly neutral strain. Pacmans flavor profile and performance makes it a great choice for use in many different beer styles.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV
Flocculation med-high
Attenuation 72-78%

 

[Screwtop]

opposition,

Holy fcuking hell! 30%+ Cara/Crystal malt. Hope you have good yeast and fermentation management skills. And/or like sickly sweet beers.

The Bridge Rd recipe is around the 24% Cara/Crystal malt, and that is really high.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Fourstar]

opposition,

Holy fcuking hell! 30%+ Cara/Crystal malt. Hope you have good yeast and fermentation management skills. And/or like sickly sweet beers.

The Bridge Rd recipe is around the 24% Cara/Crystal malt, and that is really high.

Cheers,

Screwy

Crystals: 30/187= 16% :icon_cheers:

Melanoiden is a wet high kilned malt like munich right?

 

[opposition]

Screwy,

Would you suggest raising the bitterness a touch for balance?

Fourstar, your saying its ok?

Thanks for the help guys...

Edit: My understanding is that melanoiden isnt a cara type malt - If this is true i'm looking at about 23%

 

[Fourstar]

Screwy,

Would you suggest raising the bitterness a touch for balance?

Fourstar, your saying its ok?

Thanks for the help guys...

Edit: My understanding is that melanoiden isnt a cara type malt - If this is true i'm looking at about 23%

16% is high but not as excessive as screwy quoted (which is realllly high).

There are only 30KG of crystal in 187 kg. Equivilant of 800g crystal in a 5KG batch.

If anything i'd mash LOWWWW (60-64deg) to help dry it out as there will be alot of residual dextrins with the 16% crystal malts, consequently your attenuation might suffer also.

I find a 64-67 deg mash with 5% table sugar subbed from basemalt in any beer with 10%+ crystal malt to also be a good substitute to gain futher attenuation.

 

[opposition]

I was set to mash at 65 anyway, will drop it down a touch to 62.

Any comment on the hopping?

 

[Fourstar]

I was set to mash at 65 anyway, will drop it down a touch to 62.

Any comment on the hopping?

For mine i shot for BU:GU of .50

So say your OG is 1.050, shoot for 25 IBU's or there abouts. the BJCP guidelines show a range of .38-.46.

25 IBU for me was nice. Persoanlly i'd add only a bittering additon/FWH additon. Nothing else, it doesnt need it.


EDIT: Sorry, i just noticed screwy was talking about your recipe having such a high % of crystal and not the bridge road one. Bridge road has only 16% which is a limit i would also stick to.

So, if you want the same malt bill and %'s as bridge roads adjust your recipe as follows.

6.2kg JW Ale
650g Carared
650g Caramalt
650g Melanoiden
50g JW Chocolate.


Sorry Screwy! :icon_cheers:

 

[Screwtop]

Screwy,

Would you suggest raising the bitterness a touch for balance?

Fourstar, your saying its ok?

Thanks for the help guys...

Edit: My understanding is that melanoiden isnt a cara type malt - If this is true i'm looking at about 23%

Probably not wise asking me as I don't like sweet beers at all. Would take a lot of balancing, then would be more of a red IPA. Have seen lots of argument re Melanoidin being Cara/Not Cara. Never been able to find anything on the Weyerman site stating that it is roasted green barley as is the case with other cara/crystal malts. However it is low in Enzymatic power, so I tend to treat it in a similar way to Cara/Crystal malts. Weyerman give it a max of 20% of gristbill, but I rarely use above 10%. Have even seen it described as "Melanoidin(medium crystal malt)" as in HERE.

As I said, not really the one to be asking. Max cara/crystal for my palate is 10% there are other ways of achieving mouthfeel.



Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Fourstar]

However it is low in Enzymatic power, so I tend to treat it in a similar way to Cara/Crystal malts. Weyerman give it a max of 20% of gristbill, but I rarely use above 10%.

For the purpose of conversion or recipe formulations and treating it like a crystal malt?

My understanding was melanoiden is a wet kilned diastatic malt like Munich but just taken a little further?! maybe we need to shoot Weyermann an email about it. They also say to treat it was a replacement to briess victory malt (i know im going a little off topic here). So to me it sounds like its somewhat simillar to biscuit malt in the way its gone through its malting process if thats the case.

Cheers.

 

[opposition]

I had a look at the suggested adjustment and followed suit....

I will put my mash temp back to 65 now.

Also, i've left the hopping schedule and changed the amounts to give me 23.8IBU - I'm no chilling...

Thanks to you both for all of that info.

Looking forward to the brewday!

Dean

 

[Fourstar]

I had a look at the suggested adjustment and followed suit....

I will put my mash temp back to 65 now.

Also, i've left the hopping schedule and changed the amounts to give me 23.8IBU - I'm no chilling...

Thanks to you both for all of that info.

Looking forward to the brewday!

Dean

No problems!

As a suggestion, when you physically add the hops, adjust it for 10 mins later. e.g. 20min hops @ 10 and 5 Mins @ flameout/whirlpool. this will account for the extended time at high temperatures for hop isomerisaton. if you add them as per the traditional process, you might end up with something more like 40 IBU

 

[opposition]

I hadnt thought of doing it that way, i just knocked a couple of points of my desired IBU target to allow for the NC.

Will have a look at t closer to the time.

Cheers.

 

[hazard]

16% is high but not as excessive as screwy quoted (which is realllly high).

There are only 30KG of crystal in 187 kg. Equivilant of 800g crystal in a 5KG batch.

If anything i'd mash LOWWWW (60-64deg) to help dry it out as there will be alot of residual dextrins with the 16% crystal malts, consequently your attenuation might suffer also.

I find a 64-67 deg mash with 5% table sugar subbed from basemalt in any beer with 10%+ crystal malt to also be a good substitute to gain futher attenuation.

THis is a sensible suggestion. Chuck Hahn says that JSAA contains 20% crystal malt, which is pretty high, but also 10% sugar to dry it out a bit. Right in line with 4* recommendation.

 

[manticle]

My experience isn't huge but I'd tend to drop a bit of the crystals too. Malty and sweet yes but not cloying and low hopping will give you a malt sweetness.

Myself I would also recommend mashing high but mashing long (90 minutes). Just something I've been playing with and seems to give good attenaution without being incredibly dry.

I'd love to know the basis behind this if anyone knows the technicalities. 90 mins@68 seems to give a different result to 60 mins @ 65 even though both will attenuate down to 1012 (for example).

I'd also drop out the late hops unless you specifically want a hoppy red. No harm playing with generic convention if that's what you want to do but if you are trying to make a 'traditional' IRA (not sure if there is such a thing) then the focus is on malt, not hops.

Also not 100% convinced on choc or choc in those amounts anyway. Consider small additions of roast barley which will help with colour.

By the way - Fatz's better red than dead (not sure if it's actually his design??) is the only AG beer I've made that I made specifically to someone else's recipe. I like designing my own recipes but I would definitely brew that one again. GF loved it too.

That said there are tons of recipes I see that I think - 'wow I should brew that'. Ross' choc/orange porter is one.

 

[Fourstar]

Myself I would also recommend mashing high but mashing long (90 minutes). Just something I've been playing with and seems to give good attenaution without being incredibly dry.

I'd love to know the basis behind this if anyone knows the technicalities. 90 mins@68 seems to give a different result to 60 mins @ 65 even though both will attenuate down to 1012 (for example).

Theorised, but you might find the higher temps closer to 70 incorporated with a falling mash, you may actually be increasing the fermentability.

A-Amylase will break down the starch matrix first then as the temp falls, increasing the activity of B-Amylase to convert maltose much more effectively (because there are more tail ends of the starch branch due to A-Amylases hard work.)

 

[syd_03]

search for Aiden's irish red Dean, it should be in the DB. In the DB click on "owner" and that will change the recipes to alphabetical brewer's, go to page 8 and look throught Doc's recipes.

The DB never sorts for me when I click on the columns. How do I make this work?