Do Phenolics Dissipate With Ageing?

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sodium met is not in and of itself a bad thing. Its just not much good either. After you sanitise with the bleach/vinegar, I think you are right and sodium met solution as your "rinse" phase wouldn't have hurt anything.

My preference, and(I think) the generally accepted "best practice" sanitation technique is to use a no-rinse sanitiser, and fill/use the vessel while it is still wet with the sanitising solution. If the surface of your fermenter is still coated by actual sanitising solution when you fill it... then it must be sanitary. Any bugs that land on it will just die as they land, then its full of wort.

The bleach/vinegar solution is supposed to be used as a no-rinse. The theory is that by acidifying the bleach with vinegar, it becomes effective at a low enough dose, that any residual chlorine will not be enough to cause off flavours that are above the taste threshold.

28ml of household bleach into 19L of water, followed by 28ml of white vinegar. DONT mix the bleach and vinegar directly or you will gas yourself.

Thats the ratio suggested by Charlie Tally from fivestar chemicals (makers of starsan and other food industry sanitisers) for use as an extremely effective no-rinse sanitiser. To confirm this, I personally discussed a bleach/vinegar no-rinse with Jon Herskovits from 5 star chemicals when I was next to him at one of the ANHC dinners last year. He says the same thing. One ounce to 5 gallons to one ounce. No rinsing required.

Me, I primarily use starsan (I want the foam, it is re-usable and lasts for months and months). But I use iodophor every now and again just to keep the brewery bugs on their toes - and occasionally, the vinegar/bleach solution to really come out of left field.

The last thing that touches any of my equipment before it gets its beer/wort, and that will be seconds only before ... is something that is going to activley kill any bugs.
 
TB, would you say that the cooling cycle is essential for prepping a new cube? Or would just repeated hot fills do?

I suppose the hot would do the job ... but if you let it cool down in there, you also have time for stuff to happen. I figured I want the cubes to be flavour neutral when treated in exactly the same way they would be when they were exposed to real brewing. Filled with hot product, allowed to cool slowly. By letting them cool down, I could test them under as close to "real" conditions as I could and then taste the cooled water.

I may however be a little paranoid about this sort of stuff :unsure:
 
One ounce to 5 gallons to one ounce.

Or for saving water, 1.5mL to a Litre. With 5mL syringes from the chemist, it's easy peasy. I usually make 2L at a time. ;)

edit: 1.5625 mL for all the pedants out there... :lol:
 
Err... just to get back to basics here...

You say this was fermented somewhere else... do you mean it was mashed/boiled somewhere else and then you took a cube to ferment in your own equipment or was the whole thing done in someone elses fermenter, from which you bottled?

If, as I suspect, you took a cube then fermented it in your own gear, I really think the earlier advice about cleaning everything including TAPS is pertinent. You admit to not disassembling taps to clean them, just replacing them every so often... SO, I'll bet THIS batch was done in a fermenter which had previously been used, then "cleaned" without disassembling the tap. Voila! 99% chance that this is the culprit, and it is a wild yeast/bacteria infection from the gunk caught inside the tap.

I know... it's happened to me. Am I right?
 
Ok, so thanks to a public naming and shaming from Brendo yesterday for being lazy :rolleyes: , I put this cube into a fermenter last night.

Just to be sure I paid extra attention to my sanitation regime.

Anyway, even though this is by no means a definitive result, the sample taken for a hydro reading tasted completely normal. No off flavours, jsut lovely sugary goodness of unfermented wort.

Will keep posted with results.

Cheers SJ
 
Err... just to get back to basics here...

You say this was fermented somewhere else... do you mean it was mashed/boiled somewhere else and then you took a cube to ferment in your own equipment or was the whole thing done in someone elses fermenter, from which you bottled?

If, as I suspect, you took a cube then fermented it in your own gear, I really think the earlier advice about cleaning everything including TAPS is pertinent. You admit to not disassembling taps to clean them, just replacing them every so often... SO, I'll bet THIS batch was done in a fermenter which had previously been used, then "cleaned" without disassembling the tap. Voila! 99% chance that this is the culprit, and it is a wild yeast/bacteria infection from the gunk caught inside the tap.

I know... it's happened to me. Am I right?


Brewed elsewhere, fermented here and yes- that is a possibility.

Good sanitation advice is always pertinent even if I'm right about the cause being my rinsing.
 
Well whatever the cause - whoever said chuck it was spot on. I just opened a bottle out of curiosity and it is disgusting. Imagine a child left their bandaid in a glass of burnt liquid rubber and made it look like tasty beer? They're hiding in the bushes laughing at me now. I managed about 3 small sips, each accompanied by a wince before I had to tip the bottle. I think my bottles deserve better.

I'll be keen to taste the other fermented beers from this batch - I'm pretty certain it's an issue my end rather than at the brewing end and the colour and original tastings from the fermenter were so promising so I'm keen to taste how it should be and have a crack at a version myself (recipe kindly supplied sans disinfectant flavour). I reckon the good version will be a great beer.

Thank christ my two virgin breaker all grain beers are tasting sweet.

Both cautious rinsing and hardcore tap cleaning are on the agenda for next brews.
Starsan to follow
 
Manticle,

If I were you I would sanitise your cube/fermenter immediately. Dont wait until an hour or so before your next brew. Wild yeast is a tough bugger and will require a bit of extra attention to make sure it is not present in the next beer.

cheers

Darren
 
Good advice and following tasting this horribleness, I have done both. The next few sanitation regimes are going to be triply rigorous.

Thankyou.
 
Andrew sorry to hear it is def. chuck worthy!!

However, once mine is on tap you are more than welcome to swing by for a glass or three (provided nothing goes wrong from here on!!)

Cheers SJ

:ph34r: Goes off to find some old bandaids and burn some rubber......... :ph34r:
 
Bugger Andrew - sorry to hear it is that bad :0(

my portion will be packaged before I head away so we should have a get together when I get back in October and have a taste off between SJ's and mine.

Cheers

brendo
 
Sadly they don't dissipate. 6 months later you're still left with a bandaid beer.
A real shame. :(
 
we should have a get together when I get back in October and have a taste off between SJ's and mine.

:eek: OCTOBER???? I reckon "The Burnt Rubber Band-aid Amber" (given the attention this brew has had, it needs a good name) will be hitting a keg sometime mid next week. How the hell is it supposed to last until October, esp if it isn't infected?

Cheers SJ

:ph34r: I maybe slack at getting the wort into the fermenter, but taking beer out of a keg is a completely different matter!!!
 
:eek: OCTOBER???? I reckon "The Burnt Rubber Band-aid Amber" (given the attention this brew has had, it needs a good name) will be hitting a keg sometime mid next week. How the hell is it supposed to last until October, esp if it isn't infected?

Cheers SJ

:ph34r: I maybe slack at getting the wort into the fermenter, but taking beer out of a keg is a completely different matter!!!

I thought that might get a nibble out of you mate :p

Realistically, mine will be pretty much good to go this weekend - but will probably be bottling this lot, so by the time it has conditioned, I will be OS. That and I pretty much have no free time left between now and Sept 8 due to various family b'days and weddings coming up in the next few weeks.

So mate... you may have to show some restraint on this one and pop a bit aside. Big ask I know... but what are you going to do??

Brendo

BTW... pitched the TTL yet?? :ph34r:
 
I'll be getting the TTL starting going once the fermenting fridge is clear of BRBA Amber (and all necessary equipment has been suitably decontaminated or destroyed!). Hence i reckon the TTL will be happily bubbling away (not that we rely on airlock bubbles :ph34r: ) by next weekend.

Maybe once it's gassed up, I'll bottle off a few BRBA Ambers and hide incase I completely fail at showing restraint!!

Cheers SJ
 
I'll be getting the TTL starting going once the fermenting fridge is clear of BRBA Amber (and all necessary equipment has been suitably decontaminated or destroyed!). Hence i reckon the TTL will be happily bubbling away (not that we rely on airlock bubbles :ph34r: ) by next weekend.

Maybe once it's gassed up, I'll bottle off a few BRBA Ambers and hide incase I completely fail at showing restraint!!

Cheers SJ

sounds like a plan to me mate... I am sure you can do it...
 
Bugger Andrew - sorry to hear it is that bad :0(

my portion will be packaged before I head away so we should have a get together when I get back in October and have a taste off between SJ's and mine.

Cheers

brendo

Cheers SJ and Brendo. I'll have to brew it again another time because the original fermenter tastes and smells were superb.

I guess lessons can be learned many ways. All fermenters will be very thorughly cleaned and sanitised as will the brewery/laundry and amazing caution will be exercised with any future use of bleach.

If it is a wild yeast I don't want really want to be tipping it in the garden and releasing more of the little bugger. Any suggestions from people who've had this trouble before?
 
Quick update: I've kept a few aside and while refrigerating lessens the flavour, it's always present so the answer to my first question is no.

Fairly certain it's the chlorine residue rather than wild yeast - both other brews brewed in similar time frames (actually 3 as one is a blend) have absolutely no off flavours. I know that's not conclusive

My apologies must got to Brendo and Supra for stuffing up their brew.

Taps are now being broken apart each brew as well as new ones being picked up regularly and any chlorine is rinsed with near boiling water until I can get some starsan. I never want to drink a band-aid again (no not even in the local pool).
 

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