Diactyl Rest

[Hippy]

Labels seems to be the lager man and I have enjoyed many of his posts, but I am struggling to find the labels method in that link you provide. Except to say he distinguishes between the yeast driven maturation phase and lagering to remove protein etc at -1C. It doesn't indicate if he slowly lowers to -1C or cold crashes. I suspect he cold crashes because he indicates the yeast are not active at -1C so there would seem no need to lower temperature gradually?? I hope I am not putting too many words in his mouth.

Look at my post, which is #8. The information you require is within.

 

[Black n Tan]

Look at my post, which is #8. The information you require is within.

Thanks Hippy. Sorry my mistake I just scanned looking for posts by labels, obviously thinking that is where I would find the 'labels' method. I am still a little confused on the theory as to why you would drop temp from 10C to 2C a degree a day because as labels indicates the yeast will be dormant at that temp anyway. I must be missing something. Or should I just ignore the theory and go with what people say works?? I just struggle to implement something if I don't understand why.

 

[manticle]

It's not dormant on the way down though and you avoid shocking the yeast.

Try it one way. Try it another. It's the best way to compare these things. I've done quite a few lagers with the raise quick/drop quick method and got loads of diacetyl in the finished beer.

Whatever the theory, the practice works.

 

[Black n Tan]

It's not dormant on the way down though and you avoid shocking the yeast.

Try it one way. Try it another. It's the best way to compare these things. I've done quite a few lagers with the raise quick/drop quick method and got loads of diacetyl in the finished beer.

Whatever the theory, the practice works.

agree a comparison is in order.

 

[brente1982]

So hang on, slow rise slow fall is best? Lol

Regardless, when I rack to secondary at end of d-rest (which I should do yes??), it will take my poor cooling fridge that long to cool it will be Iike a fast slow drop, well slower then a cold crash anyway.

 

[wereprawn]

Don't know much about lagering but I have read a few articles that advocate putting a piece of copper in the fermenter or using a piece of copper tube during racking ect. Something about adding electrons to the atomic "shell" of the atoms that constitute the precursor of diactyl . Do not know if this is helpful but if your fridge is not able to acheive low enough temps it may be worth looking into.

 

[citizensnips]

Lagering should occur between -1 and 3 with cooler requiring less total time.

Interesting you say that Manticle as that's how I thought the process would be. However as I'm sure many know, Palmer suggests longer times for colder temperatures and recommends if you have a shorter amount of time to lager at 7 degrees for three to four weeks. To me it just seems logical that a colder process would result in a faster one and as you have wrote that I'm going to go with my gut and against palmer and do it at around 0-1 degree for just a couple-few weeks. See what happens, but who knows who is right and wrong.

 

[manticle]

Sample it as it goes - should give you a feel for things.
Palmer is not infallible and there is s lot of outdated info in his online text.

 

[chefeffect]

There are a bunch of methods this is a great read: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers Noonan seems to be more technical in lagering than Palmer and Palmer recommends reading Noonans book on lagering which is an awesome in-depth read.

 

[Black n Tan]

There are a bunch of methods this is a great read: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers Noonan seems to be more technical in lagering than Palmer and Palmer recommends reading Noonans book on lagering which is an awesome in-depth read.

Agree that this is a great read and it was already referenced earlier in the post

 

[brente1982]

Yes it is a good read indeed.

Since I will be cold conditioning prior to bottling and he suggests using 1/4 pack of yeast, would I just rehydrate that, and place it unto the bottom of my clean fermenter with my bulk priming solution before racking on top of it aswell? Makes sense to me to do it that way so it mixes in well, but I'm obviously open go suggestions

 

[chefeffect]

Agree that this is a great read and it was already referenced earlier in the post

Whoops sorry totally missed it!! At least we all agree lol

Yes it is a good read indeed.

Since I will be cold conditioning prior to bottling and he suggests using 1/4 pack of yeast, would I just rehydrate that, and place it unto the bottom of my clean fermenter with my bulk priming solution before racking on top of it aswell? Makes sense to me to do it that way so it mixes in well, but I'm obviously open go suggestions

It wouldn't hurt, I have just bottled and they have carbonated in the past, but I only lagered for 4 weeks, if its for longer I would def use more yeast just to be cautious...

 

[brente1982]

What did you carb with if you don't mind me asking?

 

[chefeffect]

Just used Coopers carbonation drops, they seem to work ok, but if you are bulk priming dextrose is my fav.

 

[brente1982]

Yeh wasn't sure if you bottle primed or bulk primed. I'll be hulk priming so was going to use dextrose anyway

 

[labels]

Just to clear a few things up, the yeast will remain active to around 4C. A refined method I now use is to drop 1-2C per day until I get to 4C and hold there for a few days. Then you can crash it to -1C where proteins and polyphenols drop out, the yeast drops out and even chill haze drops out - especially if you've used Whirlfloc in your kettle.

Back to the diacetyl rest. Not all yeast strains produce lots of diacetyl, some produce very little but raising the temperature is still a good idea. Why? Because if diacetyl is present the yeast which has become more active at this elevated temperature will absorb it. Other fermentation byproducts also benefit, acetaldehyde for example, a precurser to alcohol gets cleaned up. What else? You are in fact warm conditioning the beer. The conditioning phase is working at double speed at elevated temperatures and is also done commercially to speed things up. A few days at around 3 - 5 at 18C - 20C will reduce the time needed for the whole conditioning process. You get to drink it sooner!

Hippy has put a link in his post on page one to some older threads which explains most everything. The two distinct stages of lagering is (1) where the active yeast is cleaning up fermentation byproducts and (2) when the very low temperature causes the yeast to become inactive and malt and hop byproducts flocculate out along with the yeast.

-Steve

 

[Black n Tan]

Thanks Labels for the update.

 

[brente1982]

probably sounds like a stupid question, but once i rack from d-rest to secondary to CC, i put in an airlock yeah? haha

 

[Rocker1986]

If you're using a lid/airlock set up then yes you would. The only real purpose of an airlock is to act as a seal from the outside air. They do serve to confuse a lot of newbies who read instructions destructions telling them to monitor it as a sign of fermentation activity though. :lol:

 

[labels]

probably sounds like a stupid question, but once i rack from d-rest to secondary to CC, i put in an airlock yeah? haha

There is no need to rack at all, it achieves absolutely nothing unless you intend a six month lagering process. You could easily damage the beer by racking. The yeast won't autolyse believe me, you have much more important things to worry about.