Quantcast

Diacetyl Rest And Lagering

Aussie Home Brewer

Help Support Aussie Home Brewer:

Goose

0 Warning Points
Joined
6/7/05
Messages
631
Reaction score
146
Hi guys,
I just came across your forum, hope you dont mind if I drop in. I'm an Australian living in Singapore, been brewing kits now for the last 6 months or so and have recently graduated to all DME recipes and just put down my first very partial grain. Am trying to make something that resembles a Pilsner. Recipe looks like this:

DME 6 lb
MaltoDex 4 oz
400g Carapil Grains (partial mash)
Galena Hops 2Oz (1 hour boil)
Hallertau Hops 2Oz (1 ox for 30 mins, 1/2 oz for 15 min, 1/2 oz for 3 mins and all these go in with primary after boil)
Saaz Hops 12 g Dry Hopping in secondary


As you can imagine the problem here is a perpetual ambient temperature of 27-30 deg c 24 x 7. There are local solutions to cooling of standard carboy fermenters in custom made insulated boxes that allow you to ferment down to 15 deg C which is probably just ok for a lager, but unless u have the room for a modified freezer "lagering" at just above freezing temperature post fermentation is impossible.

I've only just been educated on the merits of racking and dry hopping (before it was just straight into the bottle from the primary :rolleyes: ) but the latter process (ie in the secondary) has to be at ambient for me right now.

So what do u reckon peoples... fermentation at 15 deg C in primary till complete, then rack to secondary and leave for a week to 10 days at ambient (with some hops) to condition. Call it an extended diacetyl rest ? :blink: but re-cooling back down below 10 deg C is not an option for me...

and no, I dont want to stick to ales, thanks.... ;)

So what am I going to end up with doing it this way ? surely got to be better than just bottling after primary fermentation and waiting for it to condition....

Also, any comments on the amount of hops I am running with here.. ? This baby is still in primary so a bit too early to taste test.
 

KoNG

RIP-FaB (BiBIFaP)
Joined
21/1/05
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
2
STICK to ales..!! :ph34r: :p
sorry had to say it.

In all seriousness it is going to be very hard to get that crisp clean lager/pilsner thing going on unless you 'lager'..
i definately wouldnt go leaving it in secondary for TEN days at (singapore) ambient though..!!! just give it the 48 hour standard 'rest' then try and get it back to 15degC for secondary.. if thats the best you can do.

enjoy
 

Goose

0 Warning Points
Joined
6/7/05
Messages
631
Reaction score
146
thanks

But I am not sure whether it makes much difference sitting in a secondary for 10 days versus sitting in bottles for 10days, if only at least I get the chance to dry hop the beer.

how is Manly water for brewing btw kong ?.. I lived there for a while once, had to filter the water just to make the tea taste good...
 

KoNG

RIP-FaB (BiBIFaP)
Joined
21/1/05
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
2
Goose,
i guess all i was saying is that if you have the oppurtunity to rack to secondary and pseudo lager at 15degC.... it would still be better than bottling or leaving in secondary at such high temps.

Manly water is fine (i think :( ) just standard Sydney water, i've never had a problem with it.

Enjoy your pilsner.
KoNG
 

deebee

The Bludgeon Brewery
Joined
12/6/03
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
0
Gday Goose,

My efforts at brewing pseudo lagers without proper temperature control always led me straight back to ales. But you might have some success with the california lager yeast (Wyeast 2112) which can brew a bit warmer. I never loved the pseudo lagers I made with it. Otherwise, 13 or 14C is pretty much top of the range for lager yeasts.

I have heard American ale yeast (Wyeast 1056) is supposedly lager-like if brewed at 15 or 16C. I have never used Kolsch yeast but apparently it can also be used for pseudo lagers below 15C. But like Kong says I doubt you will be satisfied with a pils brewed warm or with a substitute yeast and then not lagered.

The other problem might be making a crisp beer with all that extract. My experience is that full attenuation takes a bit more effort with all-extract beers. Give your wort heaps of aeration and a big starter.

I would also take the maltodex out. With the carapils you shouldnt have a problem with head retention or body so the maltodex really serves no purpose.

Lager brewing can be pretty unforgiving and all the good homebrewed lagers I have tasted were made by brewers who were fussy enough to use the right yeasts at the right temperatures and lagered for the right amount of time. No surprise really.

But do an hour or two searching on this forum for ideas and maybe try one of those yeasts and see how you go. You might not make a pils, but it will probably be a nice beer.

Otherwise, stick to ales!

cheers
 

Goose

0 Warning Points
Joined
6/7/05
Messages
631
Reaction score
146
g'day deebee

many thanks for such an informative answer.

sigh

I knew I'd get told about ales... :unsure:

I presume u've heard of a "Steam Beer" ?...ie a lager recipe and yeast brewed at Ale temperatures. I've tried it at Brewerkz, a local microbrewery here. Made with fresh hops, and a very nice brew indeed. Maybe I can try that...

And thanks for the maltodex advice. Just thught I'd throw it in to be sure on the head retention, I've had some disasters before when its come to head retention.

Next one I'll try some more grain and less DME but definitely no more kits....

any comment on the hops ? kind of struggling to find reference to the right quantity. I like a very aromatic hoppy taste if I can achieve it. Suggestions welcome please.

Goose
 

deebee

The Bludgeon Brewery
Joined
12/6/03
Messages
1,174
Reaction score
0
The bittering hop will depend on the gravity of the boil, the length of the boil and the alpha acid rating of the hops. This table

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-5.html

will give you the utlisiation efficiency you will get from your hops as a function of boil gravity and time. The gluggier your wort the less bitterness comes out of the hops as you boil. ("How to brew" is generally a bloody great place to read up on all this stuff so read the whole thing when you can.)

This calculator

http://www.grumpys.com.au/HopWeight.php3

lets you plug in the figure you got from that table, along with desired bitterness (IBUs) the alpha acid rating and the batch size to calculate the amount of hops pellets to add. Figures are different for plugs or flowers.

Galena can be 12-14%AAU and if you are boiling 60g for an hour this will give you a lot of bitterness but if you are doing a concentrated boil and topping up later (as you probably are) then the boil will have such a high gravity that it might be okay. I will leave the maths up to you.

As for the flavour hops you are in the ballpark for "a very aromatic hoppy taste", obviously the later in the boil the better, but just let your own tastes decide. You should take into account the bittering effect of these additions using the table above as well, but they will be negligible given the low AAU% and the concentrated boil. I have heard bad things about dry-hopping with saaz so you might want to do a google on that.

Have fun.
 

pint of lager

brewing on the verandah
Joined
9/5/04
Messages
2,287
Reaction score
11
You could give WL 001, California ale a run, it is "stunningly neutral."

Otherwise move. The tablelands areas of NSW and Victoria allow you to brew lagers, and even lager properly in wintertime. I am sure Tasmania would make great lagerland country too.

Deebee has given you some great pointers on where to find excellent information. Keep reading John Palmer's book. If you only read one brewing book, this is it.

If you like making your gear, have a search of www.brewer.org. Somewhere there was a device that used an insulated box to brew in, iceblocks and a computer fan to circulated the chilled air. You swap the iceblocks in and out of your fridge twice a day. So long as the box is in an airconditioned room, you should be able to get to real lager temperatures.
 

Steve

On the back bloody porch!
Joined
10/6/05
Messages
4,656
Reaction score
100
Goose - cant you just buy a bar fridge and put your fermenter in that to brew?
 

Latest posts

Top