Defining A 'toucan' Brew

[Brewtus]

I have started doing mostly 'Toucans' lately and it seems there is a blurred line from two kit cans to pure extract brewing. Most of my tucans have been one kit and one LME. The hop levels are about right (or you can add some extra without over hopping), the head is better and it tastes better that a sh*t load of sugar. The expensive sugar is full of dried malt extract anyway. For about $9 for a Coopers 1.5kg tin compared to about $5 for the brew enhancer, the $4 is worth it. My theory is they suggest BH as it is the cheapest way to make it taste passable to a new brewer. James Squires premium just uses one tin with less hops and no sugar to make 11.5 litres.

My question to the AHB community is this -does a brew of one prehopped kit and one unhopped liquid malt extract count as 'toucan' ( I think it does) or should it have its own name like 'one each way' or "kit'n'can" or 'one hopped toucan'?

:unsure:

Suggestions are welcome.

 

[Wortgames]

I don't think there's an 'official' definition of a toucan brew, but my preference would be for it to mean 2 cans of hopped extract.

A 'kit & kilo' can already mean a kilo of sugar, dextrose, brew booster, DME or LME. The fact that the extra fermentables weigh more than a kilo, or happen to come in a can rather than a bag, is not worthy of a special name IMO.

Using 2 hopped extract cans is a different beast altogether though. It can be made with ingredients found at the back of the cupboard or in the least well-stocked supermarket, and the double dose of hops opens up the potential for creativity or disaster.

IMHO a 'toucan' brew should mean 'kit & kit' rather than 'kit & kilo'.

...2c etc etc.

 

[blackbock]

I would tend to agree with Wortgames - to me a "toucan" brew implies using two hopped kits (as available in the supermarket.) I was under the impression that the art of making a "toucan" was choosing the right combination of available hopped kits without making an unpalatably sweet or bitter end result.

Also, I think that "extract brewing" to me at least, means starting out with only unhopped extract and boiling up your own choice of hops for bittering and flavouring purposes.

In the end though, the difference we're talking about amounts to only a small amount of hop extract.

 

[Wortgames]

Also, I think that "extract brewing" to me at least, means starting out with only unhopped extract and boiling up your own choice of hops for bittering and flavouring purposes.

I think it can get a bid muddy when we try to define 'extract' brewing. In the US, for example, a 'kit' implies a box of ingredients which includes things like cracked malt or DME and hop pellets.

So if 'extract' means pure unhopped LME or DME, and a 'kit' means a 'package of ingredients', then what do we call hopped extract from the supermarket?

HLME (Hopped Liquid Malt Extract)
HEB (Hopped Extract Base)

???

 

[Brewtus]

I don't think there's an 'official' definition of a toucan brew, but my preference would be for it to mean 2 cans of hopped extract.

A 'kit & kilo' can already mean a kilo of sugar, dextrose, brew booster, DME or LME. The fact that the extra fermentables weigh more than a kilo, or happen to come in a can rather than a bag, is not worthy of a special name IMO.

Using 2 hopped extract cans is a different beast altogether though. It can be made with ingredients found at the back of the cupboard or in the least well-stocked supermarket, and the double dose of hops opens up the potential for creativity or disaster.

IMHO a 'toucan' brew should mean 'kit & kit' rather than 'kit & kilo'.

...2c etc etc.

Good point. This way Toucan implies a new level of risk and adventure. i.e. chance to really stuff it or come out with a cracking brew. It is also simple and takes advantage of supermarket specials.

I would tend to agree with Wortgames - to me a "toucan" brew implies using two hopped kits (as available in the supermarket.) I was under the impression that the art of making a "toucan" was choosing the right combination of available hopped kits without making an unpalatable sweet or bitter end result.

Also, I think that "extract brewing" to me at least, means starting out with only unhopped extract and boiling up your own choice of hops for bittering and flavouring purposes.

In the end though, the difference we're talking about amounts to only a small amount of hop extract.

OK so from now on, I at least will alway take TOUCAN to mean two kits and nothing else. Anything different is either extract, where no prehopped kits are used and hops are added by the brewer (this has always been the case) and Kit & Kilo has one prehopped kit and whatever.

I still think the difference between using a tin of LME and a kilo of powder is significant.

 

[Paleman]

" Defining a Toucan Brew "

Using two hopped cans, its that simple

I've done a couple, one crap, one good. Both of them were syrupy. The better of the two was two Grumpy's low bittered cans. Added some hops for flavour. Turned out very similiar to James Squire Amber. A little thicker....but nice.

 

[InCider]

I at least will alway take TOUCAN to mean two kits and nothing else. Anything different is either extract, where no prehopped kits are used and hops are added by the brewer (this has always been the case) and Kit & Kilo has one prehopped kit and whatever.

I still think the difference between using a tin of LME and a kilo of powder is significant.

I'm with you Brewtus. Two kits ie Stout + Dark Ale =

No worries :beerbang:

InCider.

 

[gavpk]

" Defining a Toucan Brew "

Using two hopped cans, its that simple

I've done a couple, one crap, one good. Both of them were syrupy. The better of the two was two Grumpy's low bittered cans. Added some hops for flavour. Turned out very similiar to James Squire Amber. A little thicker....but nice.

i'd be interested to have a look at that recipe if ya got time to dig it out

cheers :beer:

Gav

 

[brettprevans]

I don't think there's an 'official' definition of a toucan brew, but my preference would be for it to mean 2 cans of hopped extract.

A 'kit & kilo' can already mean a kilo of sugar, dextrose, brew booster, DME or LME. The fact that the extra fermentables weigh more than a kilo, or happen to come in a can rather than a bag, is not worthy of a special name IMO.

Using 2 hopped extract cans is a different beast altogether though. It can be made with ingredients found at the back of the cupboard or in the least well-stocked supermarket, and the double dose of hops opens up the potential for creativity or disaster.

IMHO a 'toucan' brew should mean 'kit & kit' rather than 'kit & kilo'.


Paleman Posted Apr 28 2007, 05:14 PM
" Defining a Toucan Brew "

Using two hopped cans, its that simple

I've done a couple, one crap, one good. Both of them were syrupy. The better of the two was two Grumpy's low bittered cans. Added some hops for flavour. Turned out very similiar to James Squire Amber. A little thicker....but nice.

Its an interesting topic, especially if you go down the path of toucan plus extras.... I've currently got a thread on clones of Speight's Old Dark 5 Malt beer (www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15174) and the issue of it being such a complex brew needing more malt flavour got me thinking of use a toucan brew with extra ie Muntons 3kg Highland Heavy Ale & Muntons 3.6 Smugglers Ale, plus small amount of other malts for flavour (rather than %alc) and other bits and pieces.

Given that a toucan is by definition '2 cans and nothing else', what do you get when you combine 2 cans of Premium Muntons (which is normally used as 1 x 3.6kg can of Muntons and nothing else)???? I guess if nothing else its a bloody expensive experiment.

 

[Wortgames]

Given that a toucan is by definition '2 cans and nothing else'

I wouldn't agree with that - I would say a toucan has at its base 2 cans of hopped extract.

You can put whatever other bits in there you like IMO. Whether you want to call that an 'augmented toucan' is up to you, but I reckon if it contains two kits it's a toucan.


BTW I've just finished a Cascade 'Imperial Voyage Pale Ale' toucan, nothing added, diluted it a bit in the keg though, and it has been delicious. I'll definitely do some more of that...

:beer:

 

[brettprevans]

BTW I've just finished a Cascade 'Imperial Voyage Pale Ale' toucan, nothing added, diluted it a bit in the keg though, and it has been delicious. I'll definitely do some more of that...

:beer:
[/quote]

What did you use. Im always on the lookout for good brews. Just building a library of recipes to keep me busy. Do you have any 'tasting notes' for it?

 

[Wortgames]

What did you use. Im always on the lookout for good brews. Just building a library of recipes to keep me busy. Do you have any 'tasting notes' for it?

No, I tend to be very brutal when it comes to extract brewing - I make it a point not to invest any time or energy really, it's just something I do to keep the stocks up.

Here's the 'recipe':

Take 2 cans of the Cascade 'Imperial Voyage' pale ale. Dump and stir. Take no gravity readings.

Add both packs of yeast and allow to ferment around 18C for 2 weeks.

Leave in primary, drop temp to about 4C for a further 2 weeks.

Transfer to keg. Taste. If too thick add water.

Carbonate and serve.


:super:


In all I probably made 28 - 30 litres I suppose.

It was a lovely deep copper colour, with a nice creamy head, a decent malt profile and what I thought a nicely balanced bitterness.

It was all gone far too quickly for my liking :angry:

 

[brettprevans]

No, I tend to be very brutal when it comes to extract brewing - I make it a point not to invest any time or energy really, it's just something I do to keep the stocks up.

Here's the 'recipe':

Take 2 cans of the Cascade 'Imperial Voyage' pale ale. Dump and stir. Take no gravity readings.

Add both packs of yeast and allow to ferment around 18C for 2 weeks.

Leave in primary, drop temp to about 4C for a further 2 weeks.

Transfer to keg. Taste. If too thick add water.

Carbonate and serve.


:super:
In all I probably made 28 - 30 litres I suppose.

It was a lovely deep copper colour, with a nice creamy head, a decent malt profile and what I thought a nicely balanced bitterness.

It was all gone far too quickly for my liking :angry:

No fuss beer. Gotta love that! I will give it a crack. Thanks for the info. Although no kegs for me yet, so bottle away i will.

 

[Wortgames]

I probably wouldn't be quite so slapdash if I was bottling - I'm sure it would still be fine but I'd be tempted to pay more attention to things like gravity. If nothing else, the extra effort involved in bottling probably justifies taking a bit more care.

One of the great things about kegging is that it allows you to be really lazy, because you can always tweak it later - if the gravity is high add water, and if the ferment was stuck and takes off again in the keg its no big deal.

 

[RobboMC]

I would tend to agree with Wortgames - to me a "toucan" brew implies using two hopped kits (as available in the supermarket.) I was under the impression that the art of making a "toucan" was choosing the right combination of available hopped kits without making an unpalatably sweet or bitter end result.

Also, I think that "extract brewing" to me at least, means starting out with only unhopped extract and boiling up your own choice of hops for bittering and flavouring purposes.

In the end though, the difference we're talking about amounts to only a small amount of hop extract.

IMHO there is a level between the outright beginner doing 'dump and stir' and full extract brewing.
Brewtus makes a good point that the evolution of a brewer from doing 'toucan' brews to kit plus unhopped extract to full extract is a blurred one. I have found that kit plus unhopped can brews are too malty and so I end up with a 50/50 brew, 50% kit and 50% self-hopped extract. Am I extract brewing - No, cause I'm using a kit. Am I doing kit and kilo - well yes and no.

So I reckon there is a definate level between straight K&K and extract brewing. You can call it kits and bits, kit plus, kit kilo and more. You can make some great beer quite easily with this method.

Certainly the difference in the result of using a kilo of cane sugar with your kit compared to using a couple of kilos of extract that is suitably hopped by the brewer is significant, very significant indeed.

 

[Wortgames]

Am I extract brewing - No, cause I'm using a kit. Am I doing kit and kilo - well yes and no.

I would say that you are definitely extract brewing. The fact that some of that extract already has a bit of hop oil and kiln colour in it is irrelevant IMO.

I would say that k&k is a subset of extract brewing. In other words, all k&k brewers are extract brewers, but not all extract brewers are k&k brewers. It would probably rely on the honour system for true k&k brewers (ie, a tin and a kilo of something) to differentiate themselves from other extract brewers that use more complicated ingredients.

So, if the basis for your beer is malt extract, wet or dry, hopped or unhopped, then you are an extract brewer. If all you do is open a tin and follow the instructions, well then you are a k&k extract brewer. If you steep grains then you are a partial mash extract brewer. If you just use extract but tweak your recipes with additional hops or other ingredients, you are an extract brewer with no further specification (or perhaps kits-and-bits).

That's what I reckon anyway.

Not that any of this matters in the slightest, I'm just enjoying the semantics :beer:

 

[Brewtus]

The point I am trying to make is that dump and stir has little creative input, toucan has a bit more, 'kit and can' or 'kits and bits' requires a better understanding and can twist a brew from what the kit was meant to be to something more interesting and, hopefully, better. More risk, more skill, more fun.

For full extract brewing you need to either have a good recipe or know what you are doing. It also takes longer, may need chilling which means dealing with hot and cold break, proper hopping, more equipment etc. Even more risk, more skill, more fun.

It is a learning process that makes brewing a hobby you can grow with. There are many paths to AG brewing by whatever method and this is one part of one path.

edit - syntax

 

[PostModern]

If you steep grains then you are a partial mash extract brewer.

I beg to differ. A partial mash brewer would need to have a significant portion of their fermentables being derived from a mash of base malts. Steeping Xtal, choc etc is not mashing as such. There is no conversion going on. It is still extract brewing, with specialty malts.

Just semantics?

 

[Wortgames]

I beg to differ. A partial mash brewer would need to have a significant portion of their fermentables being derived from a mash of base malts. Steeping Xtal, choc etc is not mashing as such. There is no conversion going on. It is still extract brewing, with specialty malts.

Just semantics?

That's probably a fair point. My understanding was that a 'partial' just meant a combination of extract and grains, and that the grains were there to add authentic colour and flavour more than fermentable sugars. Are you saying that it needs to be base malt, and properly mashed to provide a significant proportion of the fermentables, to be considered 'partial mashing'?

Would there be many brewers who go to all that trouble just for part of the wort and then add extract? It seems like a lot of work, but I agree that dunking a bagful of chocolate malt hardly sounds worthy of the term 'mash'.

I love semantics :beer:

 

[JCG]

IMO

A kk brewer is some who uses a kit plus what ever from a hbs or supermarket. This would differ from a tuocan brewer who uses 2 kits. I dont believe a can of unhopped malt extract is a kit as it has no yeast or hops, I put this forward as a "kit" on it own will produce something kind of beer (malt, hops, yeast and water) the fact we add a kilo to the kit makes it more tasty. Thus only using 2 kits can really be a tuocan brew IMO. . I would go as far as saying adding steeped speciality grains would be a derivative of extract brewing as we are only extracting the sugary goodness from the grains. I believe these would all be forms of extract brewing.

Moving on to partials I totally agree with PostMordern. Its all about the conversion.

A partial mash brewer would need to have a significant portion of their fermentables being derived from a mash of base malts. Steeping Xtal, choc etc is not mashing as such. There is no conversion going on. It is still extract brewing, with specialty malts.

But lets not get carried away with termanology and loss focus on making great beers! Thats my 2 cents.

JCG