Dead Yeast, Maybe Infection?

[dicko]

Wow!!
I love reading a heated argument before I head off to work, -
Look out the first client that tries to tell me how to do my job today!!!! :angry: :lol:

One question I have while on the subject of lager yeasts is,
What temp do you use to grow your lager yeast for the brew prior to brewing and subsequent pitching?
After reading the above I would guess that it should be grown at lager temps say 14deg c.

BTW Darren, your strong wheat beer was excellent. See my PM.

Cheers

 

[Darren]

Howdy Dicko,

There is no reason not to grow a starter at 14 degrees C if you have plenty of time.
The lower the temp the longer it will take to get a good sized starter though.
If you don't have a lot of time it is also fine to bring up your cell number quickly by fermenting a starter at 20-25 C. If you do use these high temps it is wise to allow enough time for your yeast to drop to the bottom of your fermenter. This will allow you to tip off most the spent starter wort that will likely be full of esters from the increased temps.
Simply feed that big starter with a small amount of your chilled wort from brew day, airate vigorously until active fermentation is seen then pitch into the bulk of the batch at around normal pitching temps (8-12).

Glad you enjoyed the wheat beer. Incidently, I entered it in the SA state comps that were judged yesterday. It took first pize and gold in the wheat beer class.

cheers
Darren

 

[jayse]

Simply feed that big starter with a small amount of your chilled wort from brew day, airate vigorously until active fermentation is seen then pitch into the bulk of the batch at around normal pitching temps (8-12).

This is what i have been doing for all brews lately and its is a great way to pitch your yeast.
I have gone as much as 24 hours before pitching the main wort without any problems what so ever, ussually it will be more like 12 hours though.
Some top floccing yeast like 1272 if the starter container is fairly full will have pure clean pastey yeast just flowing out the top.

Congrats on the awards Darren
I remember the beer it was damn fine indeed.

Jayse

 

[user 384]

I'm with Darren/Jayse/Pedro and a load of others. I would never pitch a lager starter at 23C or even an ale starter at 23C. I once pitched a lager at ale temps, at 20C to get a good start, and then put it in a fridge at 10C to try and bring the temp down. Well it certainly got a good start and had 3/4 attenuated before I got the temp down. Never again.

I was talking to a good friend recently who is studying wine makeing. They get to make trial batches in lovely shiny SS conical fermenters and temp controlled cold rooms. With a recent batch they made the yeast activity generated so much heat that even in a 0 degree cold room the temp inside the conical was 18C. Now these are different types of sugars and at higher gravitys, but what this indicated to me was that those billions of yeast cells sure can pump out a lot of heat that can be hard to control.

Cheers
MAH

 

[dicko]

Thanks guys for that info,

My attempts at lager brewing have been hit and miss up till now.
I just bought Gregory Noonans book on "Brewing Lager Beer" ( new edition) and have only thumbed through it so far (arrived in the mail today). The section on temperatures is fairly detailed and pretty much aligns with what you guys are saying with the low temps.
Congratulations Darren on your wheat beer, I hope I wasn't offensive in saying that it was similar to what I had tasted at the Belgian Beer Cafe as I am not that experienced in that style of beer but as I said in the PM I thought it was great.

Cheers

 

[Darren]

I hope I wasn't offensive in saying that it was similar to what I had tasted at the Belgian Beer Cafe

Hey Dicko,
Offensive. I took it as a compliment.
cheers
Darren

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Glad to see the book arrived today!

Jovial Monk

 

[dicko]

Yes Tom,

Australia Post excelled itself with that delivery.

I don't think I would have got it until tomorrow normally but I was doing a job for the post mistress both on her house and the shop and I got a little favouritism.sp.
It looks like a good read from what I have seen so far.
Thanks to you and Luke,

Cheers

 

[Darren]

Hmmmm so lag time is imaginary?


JM

Tom,
If your yeast are in log phase growth when they are pitched there will be no lag!

Whitelabs and wyeast also advertise their packs as "pitchable" quantities

I have always seen a lag with their products if I didn't make a starter.

I say rather than pitch at high temps make a big healthy starter.

cheers
Darren

 

[johnno]

I put down 2 X 3kg esb larger kits with the supplied dcl yeast. I re-hydrated the yeast as per instructions on dcl site. It has been in the fermenting fridge for about 2 weeks @ 13-15 deg. I just checked it this morning and it's reading 1040. OH CRAP!!! I have just added some extra yeast, but I think it's stuffed as I saw a few white spots on top.

What do you guys think? Has anyone ever had this before? I have never had any problems before.

Even a novice like me knows to pitch a lager yeast at 16-18 c. Well thats what I've pitched my whole of 3 lagers so far. The 2 I am currently drinking are delicious and clear as.
But what about daves beer? He has probably been scared off by all noise.
What have you done about it Dave? Let us know how the beer comes on.

cheers

 

[Gulf Brewery]

I just bought Gregory Noonans book on "Brewing Lager Beer" ( new edition) and have only thumbed through it so far (arrived in the mail today). The section on temperatures is fairly detailed and pretty much aligns with what you guys are saying with the low temps.

Interesting bit is that Noonan recommends pitching at the low end of the intended fermentation range. You would want lots of viable yeast and good oxygenation when you pitch like this.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Nice one Dicko!

Darryn, Hmmmmm, WhiteLabs tubes have 40-60bn cells

WY Activator Packs hav 100Bn cells, THEY are the true pitchable. Untill WL catch up, I feel no urge to order more in. Pity, I always liked WL better. . .but WY have raced ahead!

I will likely order the WL (as well as the WY) Seasonals and those few WL with no WY equivalent. The new Activator pack swells in 3-4 hours and is pitchable

Jovial Monk