Dead Yeast, Maybe Infection?

[DaveR]

I put down 2 X 3kg esb larger kits with the supplied dcl yeast. I re-hydrated the yeast as per instructions on dcl site. It has been in the fermenting fridge for about 2 weeks @ 13-15 deg. I just checked it this morning and it's reading 1040. OH CRAP!!! I have just added some extra yeast, but I think it's stuffed as I saw a few white spots on top.

What do you guys think? Has anyone ever had this before? I have never had any problems before.

 

[jgriffin]

I've had a similar problem, and found out that my fridge was getting much colder at night, causing the yeast to drop out. Once they do this, simply warming back up to 13deg won't get them going, you will need to stir up the wort to bing them back into suspension.

 

[Doc]

You should also verify that the yeast supplied with the kits is a lager yeast. If it is an ale yeast it is going to be very slow at the temperature you have your fermenters at.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Any yeast that comes with a kit is not refrigerated and may be dodgy, always by fresh yeast that is refrigerated 24/7. And pitch lager wort when it is as 23C, steadily cool it to lager temps. A lager really needs 23g dried lager yeast or huge starter

OTOH white spots might just be yeast.

Worm the wort up, pitch some fresh, rehydrated yeast, cool wort slowly, see what happens

Jovial Monk

 

[Jazman]

Acording to the wyeast seminar in adealide Dave Lodgeson recomended that u pitch the yeast at a lower temp and then raise the temp towards the end of fermentaion for a diacytail rest

 

[Jovial_Monk]

All lagers need a diacetyl rest

Drs Chris white and Cayton Cone (of White Labs and Lallemand resp) state that there is no harm in pitching a lager yeast at ale temps.

did Dave give any compelling reasons for a cool pitch and consequent slow start of the yeast?

JM

 

[Darren]

Tom,
As a HB shop owner I am unsure why you keep on this track.
DONOT pitch a lager at 23 C. (I wouldn't even pitch an ale at 23 more like 18-19)
You will not pull the temp down to lager ferment temps by the time ferment is finished
Pitch a lager at 15 C max. if you have to.
This is especially true if you are pitching onto a yeast cake.
chhers
Darren

 

[Jovial_Monk]

I can only refer you to the Dr Cone posts on the HBD and the talk given by Dr Chris White at the German Club a couple of years ago.

Since I only brew fall-winter-spring I find a fermenter will cool down to lager temps overnight (and yes, I do brew a nice big lager a day or two b4 New Years Eve, but I can get the fermenter to lager temps in 12 hours or so by putting the fermenter in the fridge)

The first 12 hours of a lager ferment co-enzyme A is not generated so the lager ferment is not compromised.

Really, you need to get the yeast acclimatised to the wort and starting to bud new cells ASAP, so pitch warm

JM

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Darryl stated

"Tom,
As a HB shop owner. . ."

Really? what HBS have you started/bought, Darryn?

JM
(tongue firmly in cheek)

 

[Darren]

The first 12 hours of a lager ferment co-enzyme A is not generated so the lager ferment is not compromised.



Really, you need to get the yeast acclimatised to the wort and starting to bud new cells ASAP, so pitch warm

JM

More rubbish Tom!

12 hours at 23C would just about finish a 1.045 beer.especially if the corect amount of yeast is pitched.

Acclimatise the yeast at around lager ferment temps NOT ale ferment temps.
Dr Cone speaks from a commercial perspective. Most professinal brewers have ways to rapidly drop and control the temp of wort upon the onset of active ferment. Homebrewers generally donot.
(Oh yeah I also attended the Chris White seminar. I quizzed him about this point. He said that if a starter was made pitching above 20 for a lager would be unwise for the reasons I have explained)

Tom, Can you elaborate on why acetyl coA would not be produced in the first 12 hours?
I expect that at ale temps enzyme activity would be high.

If you have been growing your starter for 2-3 days to build up you yeast you have certainly exceeded your stated 12 hours.

I pitch my lagers onto large starters at around 8 degree C. Active ferments take the temps to 10-12. They are finished in a week. If I pitched at 23 they would finish in a day.

cheers
Darren

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Darryn, you know better than that, know about lag times yadda yadda

And WTF did I say keep the lager at 23C??????????

Weird


JM

 

[Darren]

Darryn, you know better than that, know about lag times yadda yadda

And WTF did I say keep the lager at 23C??????????

Weird


JM

Yep Tom,
I know about lag times. There is no lag in a lager pitched at 23. It will start quick and finish quick at those temps. Add in the heat generated by fermentation pitching that warm will result in a fruity lager.
Please donot forget I am talking about pitching a lager with the correct amount of yeast.
Not a just a smack pack.

As a data point for you. About two years I made an Imperial stout. (Yes. I know it is an ale)
SG 1.120. This was pitched onto a cake from the previous batch straight from my counterflow chiller. I measured the temp. It was 20 degree C.
I left the beer that night. Next morning (12 or so hours) later I returned. There was an enormous krausen on the beer.
Checked the gravity. ~1.025
This was the last time I pitched a beer at fermentation temps.
(BTW it was like rocket fuel and a waste of a day)

I would strongly advise anyone not to pitch a lager at 23

cheers
Darren

 

[Jovial_Monk]

I give up!

I will, however, continue pitching lagers at 23C, as advocated by Dr Chris White of White Labs (the yeast people) and cooling the wort so that fermentation is at lager temps.

My last word in this thread


JM

 

[Darren]

Just curious,
How many people pitch their lagers at 23? What are your maximum pitching temps?

cheers
Darren

 

[Kai]

I pitched one at 20 a few days ago, but not with a full starter. Cooled it down to 16 overnight and it's fermenting at 12 now.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Hi Darren

This came up in another thread. I pitch lagers at 16/17 and bring them down to fermentation temperature in a fridge. There is no way I can do this if I pitch them much higher because the fermentation itself is generating heat.

On the whitelabs site, (http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast_instructions.html) , they recommend pitching lagers at 20C, then bringing it down over time. This is for commercial breweries where they have glycol chillers to get the temperature down. Most home brewers don't have this equipment (have met one that did have one )

Cheers
Pedro

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Hmmmm so lag time is imaginary?


JM

 

[Jovial_Monk]

oh man, go look at the WL site, click on Homebrew

I am rolling on the floor laughing!

JM

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Yep, the homebrew link is great for ales JM
I think you are alone in pitching lagers at 23.

Pedro

 

[jayse]

Might aswell add my bit.
Iam no lager brewer but i have done my fair share. Pitching at 23c i wouldn't ever even do for a ale either like pedro and darren here ales ussually pitch at 18c now, for a lager thats just insane i pitch at 14c for lagers and they come up perfect, clean as a whistle and fully attenuate to what i expect.

23C is not a temp I ever have any wort at no matter what. :blink: h34r:

Jayse