Culturing Wrda Yeast - Is Mine Ok?

[thermo_47]

OK so I'm pretty new to culturing yeast. I'm brewing a Dark Ale along the lines of White Rabbit Dark Ale and had read some forums on here about reculturing the yeast. Sounded like a great idea!

I no-chill so when I was putting the hot wort into cubes I saved about 3L and chilled it in an ice bath (pretty sure I was real clean) and pitched the bottom of 3 White Rabbit stubbies into it.

The next day I was thinking about it and realised that my ratios were all sorts of crazy - I probably needed to pitch that into 100mL and step it up, right? Too late.

Well my starter did fire, albeit slowly. I shook the hoo-haa out of it often as I could to "aerate" and it karusened after maybe a day or 2 - never what I would call "excited" fermentation but the airlock bubbled steadily and it smelled fruity and good. It's now 4 days since I pitched it and the krausen has subsided (it was only ever maybe 15 - 20mm high) and I'm left wondering whether to give this thing a whirl or chuck it... help?

Does make me wanna get a stir plate...

I was going to pitch it into 19L and then add another 26L once that was firing - the convenience of cubes! But here are my questions:

Can I tell if the yeast is stressed?
If it smells ok, should I go for it? Don't wanna waste precious wort...
Will the SG give me any indicators?
Have I missed anything really obvious?

This is a Christmas beer so it'd be nice not to be disappointed on the day... If this yeast is too iffy I'll go with US-05 - always seems to do the job.

Cheers, Jon

 

[np1962]

[quote name='Jon's Brew' post='835639' date='Nov 2 2011, 05:54 PM']Have I missed anything really obvious?


Cheers, Jon[/quote]
Taste it.
If it smells right and tastes right it should be right. :icon_cheers:

 

[phoenixdigital]

[quote name='Jon's Brew' post='835639' date='Nov 2 2011, 05:24 PM']OK so I'm pretty new to culturing yeast. I'm brewing a Dark Ale along the lines of White Rabbit Dark Ale and had read some forums on here about reculturing the yeast. Sounded like a great idea!

I no-chill so when I was putting the hot wort into cubes I saved about 3L and chilled it in an ice bath (pretty sure I was real clean) and pitched the bottom of 3 White Rabbit stubbies into it.[/quote]

You did way more than we did.

We just kept the bottom residue of a six pack in a pasta sauce jar. Fed it some dextrose about twice (completely unmeasured about a tablespoon). Shook the crap out of it every now and then.

There was about a 1-2mm amount of yeast at the bottom after about a week.

Pitched it into a partial of
1 x tin of Wals Pale Ale
200g of stout grain pack from Brewers Choice (Steeped for about 20 mins at 65 deg)
900g of Light DME
500g of Dextrose
30g of Hallertau (dry hopped)
Fermented at 17 deg

She eventually took off and it was the best beer we HAD ever made at the time.

We kept the yeast from that batch and put it in the fridge. Then we stupidly turned the fridge off as it didn't have beer fermenting in it. 2 weeks later we used the poor neglected yeast in TWO 26 litre batches. We hesitated before pouring the yeast in as it smelt a bit funky. We should have trusted that instinct... All 52 litres now sleeps with the fishes. We learnt some yeast respect that day and also now will never pitch the same yeast into two batches ever again.

[quote name='Jon's Brew' post='835639' date='Nov 2 2011, 05:24 PM']Can I tell if the yeast is stressed?
If it smells ok, should I go for it? Don't wanna waste precious wort...
Will the SG give me any indicators?
Have I missed anything really obvious?[/quote]

I wouldn't worry about it to be honest. The most recent one (similar recipe) we were even more lax with the harvesting and fed it once. There wasn't much yeast in the bottle and I am certain we underpitched (What you think you did). It took a while to get going and had a really strong banana taste too it. Which we assume was from the reproductive phase which would have been avoided if we had a proper starter.

It's finished fermenting and the banana flavour has gone and I think it's going to taste just as good as the others based on tasting prior to racking.

[quote name='Jon's Brew' post='835639' date='Nov 2 2011, 05:24 PM']This is a Christmas beer so it'd be nice not to be disappointed on the day... If this yeast is too iffy I'll go with US-05 - always seems to do the job.[/quote]

I am sure your beer will come out great. You took a lot more care than we did and our beers came out brilliant. Some people we know have said that our dark ale has surpassed anything their mates have made who had been homebrewing for years.

WRDA is an open fermented beer btw so if your game you should try that
http://www.brewingtv.com/episodes/2010/5/1...rmentation.html

That is also probably where the banana flavours may come from. We will be doing this next winter in maybe 5 or 13 litre batches just so we dont potentially ruin a whole 25 litres of beer.

Edit: As NigeP62 said just taste it. If it tastes ok then its most likely not going to be off.

 

[ekul]

I've cultured white rabbit dark ale a few time before. I've found that it doesn't fire as hard as coopers so it needs to be fed a little slower. This is how i do it.

Part 1) Making some yeast food

Get some 10g of DME, LME or some tin goo (i use tin goo because i don't make kits anymore)
Add to 150ml of water. Boil for 5-10 minutes or until volume is 100ml

Pour into a cleaned and sanitised beer bottle. Cap with al foil and a rubber band.

Allow to slowly cool or run under the tap.

Part 2) Feeding the yeast

Get a bottle of WRDA. Spray it with starsan
Gently pour beer into a clean glass, being careful not to disturb the yeast. Cap with al foil

Get your wort you made in part 1. Suck up 5-10ml in a sterile syringe and add to the bottle.

Give the bottle another spray on the outside and then cap with sanitised al foil.

Part 3) Mkae the yeast get its freak on

The next day make up some more wort and chill it.

Add 30ml of wort to the bottle.

The next day add 100ml of wort to the bottle

The next day pour the bottle into clean and sanitised 2L coke bottle and add 300ml of wort

The next day add 750ml of wort

Let it sit for 2-3 days and chill. Pour off most the liquid, tasting some of it. If it tastes good its ready to go. Mix the yeast up so its pourable and pour it into your fermenter with your brew.

So in conclusion
Day1- add 10ml of wort to WRDA bottle
Day2- Add 30ml
Day3- Add 100ml
Day4- Add 300ml
Day5- Add 750ml
Day6- Chillax
Day7- Ready to pitch

I do lots of little steps when making yeast so that the yeast can outcompete any bacteria. If you add a few bottles worth of dregs to 1L of wort theres a good chance that something else will get in there. With small steps it means that you only need to start with one bottle, which means that you can make multiple starters from the same six pack. If one goes bad you've got a backup.

If all the starters are good pour off all the liquid from the ones you didn't use and add some sterile saline solution. Pour this into a 50ml sterile piss jar and keep in the fridge. Next time you need this yeast you can just pour it into a 1L starter.

If you don't want to go to all this effort you can actually buy this yeast. From memory its WLP022 but i'm not sure.. Sussex ale yeast maybe?

Good luck mate and happy brewing

 

[sim]

If you don't want to go to all this effort you can actually buy this yeast. From memory its WLP022 but i'm not sure.. Sussex ale yeast maybe?

WLP022 is Essex - all time favourite yeast, pretty much got it fermenting year round. Where did you hear that about WLP022? theres a fair bit of contention in that regard, in the WRDA Clone thread.

 

[phoenixdigital]

I do lots of little steps when making yeast so that the yeast can outcompete any bacteria. If you add a few bottles worth of dregs to 1L of wort theres a good chance that something else will get in there. With small steps it means that you only need to start with one bottle, which means that you can make multiple starters from the same six pack. If one goes bad you've got a backup.

Just curious if you have ever had a starter go bad?

While I realise our method is very amateur and prone to infections it seems to be ok so far and it much easier/lazier. But its a good way to get people into trying their own starters without much fuss.

I am certain we will end up using your method in time... and most likely when infections occur

 

[phoenixdigital]

WLP022 is Essex - all time favourite yeast, pretty much got it fermenting year round. Where did you hear that about WLP022? theres a fair bit of contention in that regard, in the WRDA Clone thread.

Our local hombrew shop guys think it is Burtons yeast from recollection.
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp023.html

 

[Tim]

I hate to turn the lights out on the party, but WRDA is filtered and re-seeded with SAFLager W34/70 for bottle conditioning. I cultured some recently and Kai (the WR brewer) confirmed it's the lager strain.

 

[phoenixdigital]

I hate to turn the lights out on the party, but WRDA is filtered and re-seeded with SAFLager W34/70 for bottle conditioning. I cultured some recently and Kai (the WR brewer) confirmed it's the lager strain.

Interesting. Either way the beer still tastes good when brewed with it

 

[Tim]

Apparently it used to be the primary strain, but they switched as the primary was inconsistent when bottle conditioning.

 

[phoenixdigital]

Apparently it used to be the primary strain, but they switched as the primary was inconsistent when bottle conditioning.

Good to see they had a valid reason apart from trying to stop us from experimenting We still buy a carton from time to time anyway as it is delicious.

If its SAFLager W34 then 17-19 deg we have been brewing at is way too high for this yeast. Seem to have dodged a bullet there... but if it aint broke.

from http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/HB/EN/Saflager_W-3470_HB.pdf
Recommended fermentation temperature: 9C – 15C, ideally 12C.

 

[thermo_47]

Well thanks everybody for shedding light on the subject! I never would've considered using a Lager yeast for that style of beer on purpose, but if it works...?

I think I'll go for US-05 this time to be safe. I still really like the concept of using your actual wort for starters - from what I've read if the yeast cells have a "consistent" diet they'll be a lot happier.

On a wierd tangent, I also brewed a Munich Dunkel on the weekend and haven't gotten yeast yet (still in cubes) - but I don't suppose the SAFLager W34 is in the right ballpark for that style...?

I was going to go for Wyeast 2206.

Thanks again all - I'm keen to learn to propogate yeast in a healthy way - after all, it's their magic that makes our passion for brewing worthwhile eh? :drinks:

 

[sim]

[quote name='Jon's Brew' post='836003' date='Nov 3 2011, 01:18 PM']I still really like the concept of using your actual wort for starters - from what I've read if the yeast cells have a "consistent" diet they'll be a lot happier.[/quote]


Jon, Seeing as you no-chill provide you have a tap on the cube, by squeezing the sides you can draw out a litre or two of wort without letting air in. has worked for me.

 

[gap]

I think something is being missed here.

THe beer is fermented with an ale yeast and then bottle conditioned with a different yeast, a lager yeast.

It is not fermented with a lager yeast.

Regards

Graeme

 

[phoenixdigital]

I think something is being missed here.

THe beer is fermented with an ale yeast and then bottle conditioned with a different yeast, a lager yeast.

It is not fermented with a lager yeast.

Nothing missed at all. I fully understand that they filter and then add the lager yeast for conditioning.

What I was saying is we are using the WRDA bottle yeast (lager yeast supposedly which we thought was an ale yeast) to ferment our own dark ales are 17-19deg and are getting delicious beers even though it is way outside of the suggested temps.

So those of use re-culturing the WRDA yeast are actually fermenting with a lager yeast.

 

[thermo_47]

I think something is being missed here.

THe beer is fermented with an ale yeast and then bottle conditioned with a different yeast, a lager yeast.

It is not fermented with a lager yeast.

Thanks Graeme - I was only referring to homebrewers that had "accidentally" used lager yeast when trying to produce ales using the bottling yeast from WRDA... and it had worked!

Just surprised, I guess... :huh: