Cubes. What do you use and where do you get it?

[pjsyrax]

Hi All,

Still less than a year in to home brewing and just came across the no chill cube method.

I'll be moving to all grain brewing for my next batch and want to know what containers you guys are using for cubes and where your buying them (bunnings?)

Also, does anyone have some ideas on how much extra bitterness it might contribute for only 1 day in a cube?

Cheers.

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[DJ_L3ThAL]

Where are you located? I'm using dangerous goods approved HDPE cubes which are the goods (won't warp from the temperature and easy to squeeze excess air out of), they also have RED caps!!!

EDIT: For the bitterness, the chilling down time is the period in which added bitterness occurs, once it has cooled to room temp (actually probably even before this if anyone can comment?) there will be no more utilisation of bitterness from the hops and you can store the cube (/flame suit on) "indefinitely" without added bitterness until you are ready to ferment. Obviously store it out of sunlight and at a reasonably cool room temp.

So in a nutshell, if you store the cube for 1 day or 10 days, you will have the same amount of extra IBUs from no chilling either way.

 

[pjsyrax]

I'm in Melbourne.. out near Wantirna.

Interesting comments about the IBU. Will need to factor that in.

Will be good to hear how other people adjust their recipies



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[DJ_L3ThAL]

Hmm you missed the recent bulk buy from greensborough home brewing for cubes. Plasdene and people in plastic are some ships you can check out for them. Not local to you though.

Download brewmate (free) and it has a simple tick box top adjust your recipe for no chilling, easy. Although I am led to believe it's not am exact science and will require taste testing and adjusting for your setup/process. The result of that being more beer drunk

 

[punkin]

I use square 20l cubes from Plasdene they are only $10-12 each. I just chuck the no chill button in Brewmate and then adjust my additions by 5-10 mins (except bittering) from when i'd normally throw them.
IE; i still use the nochill Brewmate times in the printout, but if i'm after flavour i'll put em in brewmate as 5 mins instead of 15 mins and for aroma i'll put em in as whirlpool instead of flameout.

 

[pjsyrax]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like it's not something commonly found at stores like bunnings or camping stores then?

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[bum]

Any HDPE container sold as being appropriate for carrying water will be fine. Bunnings will sell them. I get mine at Rays Outdoors. Probably find something at Aussie Disposals. A lot of people seem to grab them at BCF.

Calculation adjustment will vary from recipe to recipe. A single rule of thumb doesn't really work, for my money. For example, I find a beer with a single bittering addition only (not that I make many of those) doesn't require any shift at all in my experience but a beer that relies heavily on late hop character requires significant adjustment (I tend to only cube hop in these cases). Beers in between will need treatment somewhere in between.

There's LOTS of threads about this for you to have a look at to work out what will be a good starting point for you. Just a matter of suck it and see from there.

 

[tavas]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/25l-water-drum-with-bung_p3240383

Just one of the possibilities

 

[sp0rk]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/25l-water-drum-with-bung_p3240383

Just one of the possibilities

They also do a 20L jerry can style one, but I can't find it on their site

 

[adamh]

I use the 20L jerry can one

 

[mxd]

there's a few threads about cubes, I goto crown concepts in cheltenham

 

[pjsyrax]

Thanks everyone...I didn't actually know what everyone meant when they said cubes, now ive seen some pics I realize exactly what they are...

Think I'll definitely pick one up. Aussie disposals have 25l ones for 13 bucks... As long as they are the right material I'll probably try one

Anyone know if Beersmith has the adjustment factors/options for the IBU?

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[NewtownClown]

Just look for the symbol below if it doesn't say HDPE

 

[Bats]

I have used the cubes from Aussie Disposals. They are cheap but tend to warp a lot quicker after numerous use and squeezing air out.

I now use the Willow jerry can one's from Big W. They are a bit dearer but better quality HDPE and lasts longer. They also suit me better as they are narrower and I can fit 3 side by side in my fermentation fridge.

In regards the hop bitterness using no chill, use Brewmate and tick No chill. If you don't use Brewmate, just adjust your hop schedule. I hop 15 mins later using no chil e.g 60 min hop addition at 45 min, 15 min at flameout, 1 or 0 min dry hopped in the cube upon transfer.

 

[Bribie G]

I use two 10L ones from Bunnings. Not the cheapest but they cool a lot quicker and I can always pitch the next morning.

If the cube is sealed and sanitised properly the wort can keep for years.
I recently had a cube of Russian Imperial Stout from 2011 that I fermented and it shaped up quite reasonably in the NSW comps.

The main drawback for no-chill that is often touted is the reduction in aroma hop character. There are some easy ways around this, my favourite:

Don't use aroma hops (10min or flameout additions) in the brew, just bittering.
When you are ready to pitch, pour the wort into fermenter and add yeast, but reserve a couple of litres and put into stockpot.
Bring to boil, and add your 10min or flameout at this stage
Strain off the wort and crash chill, won't take long with just 2L
Pour into fermenter and away you go.

A slightly more sophisticated method (thanks to member Argon) is to chill the cube and when you have done the late hop boil, pour the cube and the boiling wort straight into the fermenter to arrive at your ferm. temperature.
Plenty of mixing calculators online to hit your temperature.

 

[spryzie]

Blue Willow branded ones are what I use.

Kmart has them cheaper than Mitre 10.

 

[BeerNess]

Anyone know if Beersmith has the adjustment factors/options for the IBU?

Nope it does not, I have seen people ask Brad (the creator of Beersmith) many many times on the Beersmith forums to no avail, so I doubt it will ever get added.

I don't think no-chill really makes any difference, but I follow the advice given above by Batz and bum, time adjustments and cube hopping.

As a note of curious information, I also read a conversation on a kiwi forum that included Soren (Brewer of 8 Wired) and was explaining that his commercial processes, whirlpooling etc.. meant that wort doesn't get chilled anywhere close to flameout (unlike a 20l homebrew batch which could be chilled within 5-30 minutes of flameout for example), a fair amount of volatile stuff is lost so he compensates with larger/longer dry hop additions.

Trial and error, experiment!
:icon_offtopic:
<soapbox rant/flamesuit on>
With regards to no-chill vs chilling I've been thinking about isomerisation and IBU's measured by recipe design programs, given out from brewers, etc and that those that calculate flameout additions as 0 IBU are full of horse sh!t... except home brewers using a chiller immediately after flameout, there is going to be at least 30m-1hr of hot wort continuing the isomerisation of alpha acids - slower, yes but still occuring, and bigger the batch the slower the temp change, more isomerisation... So what that leaves you with is almost every recipe in the world is going to taste different depending on the equipment and process that are used.... and trivialisation to the whole measurement of IBU's without quantitative measurement of a sample. And of course along with IBU's the hard to measure taste and aroma affecting volatile oils etc are driven off alot in this time...
... as a rough guide for how much bittering hops to add, or swapping hops with vastly different alpha content the brewing softwares are useful. Brewmate's no-chill check box is about the best thing in any brewing software imo... And I reckon should be applied to anything that your not chilling immediately after flameout regardless.

 

[thedragon]

I have recycled cubes that FWKs came in: brought from grain and grape (full, of course)

Keg king, which is closer to your place, also sell FWKs.

 

[pjsyrax]

Yeah my local Brewers Den has them to. Based on the advice here, especially about the aussie disposals ones, I'll probably get one from bunnings or rays outdoors.



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[punkin]

It's important to size your cubes to your fermenter/packaging size. If you keg that means a final volume of 19-20l. This means that a 20l plasdene cube that holds 23-24l is perfect as the air can be squeezed out with say 22l in there and akkow for some trub in the fermenter and still get a full keg. If a 25 litre jerry actually holds 28l, unless you bottle the left overs or have a bitza keg you are going to have excess air space or excess beer.