Crown Urn - Concealed Or Exposed?

[Wimmig]

Just about to buy a crown urn after deciding on the 40L model. Now it seems just a need to decide between the concealed element which is most common or the exposed element. I've read countless threads on this here and elsewhere and opinion seems divided, at best. The only consistencies i can put together are;

Concealed;

Easier to clean
Harder to maintain boil / cuts out constantly

Exposed;

Harder to clean
Easier to maintain boil & faster boil

From what i can tell in my reading the issues on the concealed element sound like not keeping the bottom plate clean and free of rubbish, otherwise it is partial to cutting out frequently. I sure like the idea of the concealed one, being easier to clean but am worried about it cutting out constantly. Am i to take it that with good cleaning, and PBW or the like the concealed element model is just as good as the exposed? I've no intention of bypassing any circuits on the concealed if i went with it. I wish i could find more local dealers for the exposed element as well, best i have found on the concealed is $238.50 in Sydney pickup.

Would the exposed be THAT much better to justify ordering it from further away + paying shipping making it at least $50 more?

 

[Fodder]

I am also in the market and pretty much have the same thoughts.

Very much looking forward to some responses...

 

[tavas]

What do you mean by "hard to clean"? I have a Birko with exposed element and it only takes about 5 mins work to clean. Usually it gets a soak in Napisan and a wipe with Scotch Brite. Any built up, cooked on gunk gets a scrape with a paint scraper and away it goes.

My $100 ebay concealed urn still has the baked on wort that I couldn't clean.

I don't have the same issues as the Crown guys when it come to maintaining a boil but for my money's worth, I would take maintaining a boil (and associated potential damaging your urn) over 5 mins less of cleaning.

 

[Wimmig]

What do you mean by "hard to clean"? I have a Birko with exposed element and it only takes about 5 mins work to clean. Usually it gets a soak in Napisan and a wipe with Scotch Brite. Any built up, cooked on gunk gets a scrape with a paint scraper and away it goes.

My $100 ebay concealed urn still has the baked on wort that I couldn't clean.

I don't have the same issues as the Crown guys when it come to maintaining a boil but for my money's worth, I would take maintaining a boil (and associated potential damaging your urn) over 5 mins less of cleaning.

I would mean somewhat harder to clean than the exposed element from what ive read? I clean everything to a religious level anyway, so i'm not too fussed. Though i like the idea of a concealed element with just a flush surface to clean after. I'm of the same opinion, the boils is the most important here. Though if the general consensus is harder to maintain a boil because it's not being kept clean enough i'd just go with the concealed.

Are the other crown users out there of the opinion that if you keep it clean there are no problems? Or is there more an issue of it getting dirty and tripping while in use regardless of pre and post cleaning?

 

[Spork]

Unmodified Crown with concealed element. Good enough boil IMO. I spend 30 seconds every brew day cleaning the element cover.
Have never had it cut out, however, have never made a dubel or a tripel or a RIS in it either. Have only boiled wort < 1.070

 

[Wimmig]

Unmodified Crown with concealed element. Good enough boil IMO. I spend 30 seconds every brew day cleaning the element cover.
Have never had it cut out, however, have never made a dubel or a tripel or a RIS in it either. Have only boiled wort < 1.070

Looks great. I'm leaning towards concealed myself. Nice cover too, make it up yourself or is it off the shelf?

Anybody else with urns got something to add?

 

[Spork]

Thanks Wimmig.
Cover is a $2 car windscreen shade modified with a pair of scissors.
It only comes off for cleaning. Makes the outside of the urn a bit cooler to touch - handy for clumsy types like me, and helps reduce heat loss, thus reducing heat up times. Of course, lots of additional covering (a Vinnie's goretex vest, a wooly jumper and an old blanket) are used during the mash.

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Unmodified Crown with concealed element. Good enough boil IMO. I spend 30 seconds every brew day cleaning the element cover.
Have never had it cut out, however, have never made a dubel or a tripel or a RIS in it either. Have only boiled wort < 1.070

I have to echo Spork's comments.

I have a Crown Urn as well, the concealed element one. Mine keeps a nice boil rolling with no modifications to the cut-off. I would guess that perhaps the exposed element version would bring the liquid up to mash and boiling temps quicker but mine does the job and is a cinch to clean inside. I think you would be happy with either. I guess it would come down to a couple of extra minutes cleaning between the 2.

 

[stux]

Thanks Wimmig.
Cover is a $2 car windscreen shade modified with a pair of scissors.
It only comes off for cleaning. Makes the outside of the urn a bit cooler to touch - handy for clumsy types like me, and helps reduce heat loss, thus reducing heat up times. Of course, lots of additional covering (a Vinnie's goretex vest, a wooly jumper and an old blanket) are used during the mash.

Probably helps with boil vigour too (and thus cutting out )

 

[Newbee(r)]

Unmodified Crown with concealed element. Good enough boil IMO. I spend 30 seconds every brew day cleaning the element cover.
Have never had it cut out, however, have never made a dubel or a tripel or a RIS in it either. Have only boiled wort < 1.070

Me too, takes a little while to get from mash temp to boil but never cuts out, and I have never had a problem. I Put 33L in for 23L back and it works a treat every time. I BIAB, so it is forgiving when you forget to turn the temp off when the bag is in and leave it for 90 min (oops learnt that lesson! - the bag is intact, small singe mark is all). Cleaning is simple and easy. Concealed get's my vote - haven't tried exposed but no need to.

 

[MarkBastard]

I have a Crown concealed with the mod done though I never used it without the mod so can't say whether or not it would actually cut out if I didn't mod it.

No issues with a blown element etc after almost two years.

Great boil, though I have permanent insulation on the outside and brew mostly in doors.

 

[MarkBastard]

Oh and I never have the urn turned on with the bag or grain in it.

 

[Bribie G]

I've got the exposed element but it can also suffer from cutouts when you are boiling a "big" beer or doing a 90 min boil, where you get a bit of crud building up on the element and the urn thinks it has boiled dry and switches off for a while. However the boil is a good "rolling" and gets the wort down to the right level in the calculated time. As posted above, dead easy to clean with a Scotch Brite.

Whichever urn you get, a good add on is an over-the-side immersion heater for $90 - 105 or second hand, really speeds up the ramp up to strike temp, ramp up to boil. You won't be sorry.

 

[Wimmig]

Thanks for the replies all. Seems as though the only answer is keeping things clean to allow the temp element & sensor to work correctly. I will base this purchase purely on price now.

Cheers all.

 

[nala]

Thanks for the replies all. Seems as though the only answer is keeping things clean to allow the temp element & sensor to work correctly. I will base this purchase purely on price now.

Cheers all.

It is not about keeping things clean !
When you boil the wort some of it will bake onto the element, this is whilst you are boiling.
To get the element to start heating again you have to scape the residual baked on wort/malt off the element ring - in the concealed element version - the thermostat will then call for heat and will begin the boil again.
I got an electrician to disconect both the thermostat and the boil dry facility and now get an uninterupted boil, the cleaning
part is after the boil, I soak in cold water and remove the baked on crud with a scrubbing pad.

 

[Wimmig]

It is not about keeping things clean !
When you boil the wort some of it will bake onto the element, this is whilst you are boiling.
To get the element to start heating again you have to scape the residual baked on wort/malt off the element ring - in the concealed element version - the thermostat will then call for heat and will begin the boil again.
I got an electrician to disconect both the thermostat and the boil dry facility and now get an uninterupted boil, the cleaning
part is after the boil, I soak in cold water and remove the baked on crud with a scrubbing pad.

I understand the issues, but if the issue is present in both the concealed and exposed version and without alteration will not be corrected either way then price will be my determination in this purchase

 

[edschache]

I used a lump of timber as a stirrer - similar to that used by the Ghetto boys in the BABBS system wars (see the vids linked from the thread). With this I was able to rub the element during the boil and avoid anything cooking onto the element. With the concealed this is easy as it's just a flat surface to rub against. I'm not sure the same would be easily achievable with the exposed. That said... only one brew in so it might be hopeless second time around.

For me personally I've worked too hard for my house (to buy it) and on my house (to fix it) to have an urn with the safety mechanisms bypassed. Each to his own though.

Cheers,

Ed

 

[jayahhdee]

I've got a Crown Urn with exposed element and I can honestly say if the thing that is make you decide against it is cleaning I wouldn't want to see your sanitising routine. Cleaning the element only takes a couple of minutes, a couple of litres of warm/hot water in there and a scrubbing cloth and any gunk come away easily.

Either way, concealed or exposed, you will need to clean the damn thing.

 

[Wimmig]

I've got a Crown Urn with exposed element and I can honestly say if the thing that is make you decide against it is cleaning I wouldn't want to see your sanitising routine. Cleaning the element only takes a couple of minutes, a couple of litres of warm/hot water in there and a scrubbing cloth and any gunk come away easily.

Either way, concealed or exposed, you will need to clean the damn thing.

Picked it up yesterday, concealed element. Came down to pure price, no exposed ones with easy ordering in NSW without paying shipping. Did a run today after marking the tube and checking it out. Small amount of stone (i assume calcium) left after boil. Quick clean, quick PBW boil and spray down and good and done.

Ready for the first run this week