Copper Soldering

[Archie]

Gday everyone,
Well its a question really, what type of soldering iron do you use to solder copper joints. I have tried using my normal soldering iron and it just doesnt get hot enoung to completely solder the join.
Do you use a butane torch, huge soldering iron or other method.

Any help on where to buy the tools would be great am going to piipe in my new HLT into my new AG setup today.

Cheers

Arch

:chug:

 

[DJR]

You need a blowtorch - heat up the pipe then apply the solder and flux

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=brazing+copper

Make sure it's lead free and that you soak the stuff in HCl for a bit to remove any nasties and clean up the copper

 

[Batz]

You don't solder joints but braze them,for this you need to be able to get the joints cherry red.
I know it called silver solder but it brazed.Plain solder contains lead and should not be used.
OK if you were not confused before I bet you are now :lol:

Batz

 

[Archie]

haha cheers batz,
okay brazing now what sort of tool will i need to get the joints cherry red i already have lead free solder so maybe a butane torch or something
??

 

[newguy]

An electric soldering gun simply doesn't have the "oomph" of a torch. I use a propane torch myself, but I imagine that butane would be fine too. Depends entirely on the cost of the kit & the cost of the fuel.

Most hardware or building supply stores should stock a propane soldering kit. That's where I got mine.
Picture of what I'm talking about.

Propane works well, but getting good joins took a bit of practice for me. Some things I learned: make sure each surface is absolutely clean. "Rough up" each surface using fine sandpaper or a wire brush. Flux is your friend. Never try to apply solder on the same side of the pipe as the torch. Get the joint hot, then gently brush the solder against the opposite side of the pipe as the torch - the solder will wick over to the heat source.

Hope this helps.

 

[Archie]

Thanks newguy I am due for a trip to bunnings anyway today so another new tool to play with haha

Thanks guys i will let you know and post some pics of how its look ing

shhhh dont tell the missus

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

The Benzomatic yellow cylider with auto ignition is a great bit of gear to own, and will get endless use after you have finished building you brewery. They are great fire lighters if the woods a bit damp and also boil the billy for a cuppa in just a minute. Use to cook jaffels on job sites or out fishing or camping and don't want to/cant light a fire..

As for your joining pipes , clean all joints with a green scrubby and a bit of Bakers Fluid, apply a good dash of flux and heart till cherry red , apply the solder gently to the hot surface and allow to run into the joint and around the pipe. If your joints are fixed and you cant see if its gone all the way around use a mirror to cheek the back of the joint..


:beer:

 

[Archie]

Thanks for the info

 

[poppa joe]

Archie....You can also get a Brazing gas in the small kits
PJ

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Brazing rods are generally gold in coulour, so if you want to polish the joint it will look really pretty.

Brazing requires a lot more heat than soldering.

You could also try silver solder rods.

Be carefull not to keep the copper red hot for to long as it will anneal and go brittle.

And cleanlyness and flux are a must.

 

[Hutch]

Just out of interest, does anyone know if there is a problem with using lead-free solder as is used in the electronics industry?
It melts at a much lower temperature than silver solder, making it feasible to use a small butane "hobby" torch like this $30 one from Jaycar...

 

[domonsura]

Just to clarify - From my understanding and schooling, soldering and brazing are 2 different things.

Soldering = using solder (silver coloured rods) to make the join, can be completed with much less heat, but is not as strong as brazing. Soldering is generally used on copper joints, but can also be used to join stainless to stainless, or copper/brass to stainless. Solder is available in a variety of 'mixes' low to high silver content. low silver content is very easy to use on copper, higher silver content is necessary when trying to join stainless/copper etc.

Brazing = using brass rod to make the join (the gold coloured rods), requires more heat, and is much stronger. Brazing can be used to join many things, including mild steel, copper etc. I brazed my very first steel framed go-kart together. nice easy and dead strong.

From what I know, no solder 'sold' in Australia contains lead anymore, it was phased out some time ago according to every plumber/plumbing outlet I have spoken to, so while it probably pays to check anyway, I think you probably don't have to be too concerned about your solder containing lead here.
As far as solder used in the electrical industry, I wouldn't use it in your brewery, as it is likely that it contains it's own flux of unknown chemical composition, and also that it might contain other substances to increase it's conductivity etc that might not be 'brew friendly' or might leach god knows what into your brew.


Horses for courses....if you are doing plumbing...use plumbing solder.......better safe than sorry.

 

[Blackfish]

Thats a pretty good summary from domonsura

I have had soe recent adventures with this and have picked up the following:

Questioned a few plumbing suppliers and they do say that there is no lead in the solder they sell nowdays
HOWEVER I picked up the roll of solder he was selling and it was labelled 50% Pb 50% Sn
Pb = LEAD!!
Sn = Tin

Questioned this and got just sholder shrugs. Are there any wise Plumbers who can settle that one for me?

They (2 major plumbing supply chains) did not stock anything specifically "lead free"
I ended up buying "lead free" solder from bunnings which i think contains Tin and Antimony. It was expensive for a piddly little roll but I rather that than go crazy like a roman from lead poisoning.

Brazing can be tricky but it's fun to learn. The yellow cylnders are the ones to get. MAPP gas is hotter and gets it done a lot faster than propane. Make sure you get the right flux, make sure everything to be joined is very clean and dont spare the heat. You will do great after some practice.

I picked up these for under $20 last week (not affiliated at all) . Not essential tools for this, but keeping the job neat makes it more satisfying IMHO.


enjoy! :beer:

FHG

 

[Hutch]

From what I know, no solder 'sold' in Australia contains lead anymore

Sorry to be petty, but this is far from true.
The cheap rolls of solder are still 60/40 (Lead/Tin), with no other "unknowns" added. They have a flux core, which makes them a sinch to use, and the flux can be removed after the job is done with a decent solvent like acetone.

...However - I would NOT recommend using this anywhere that would come into contact with your beer (for feer of leaching lead), although there would be no problem if your plumbing never came in contact with the brew (say for example making the water-jacket for a counter-flow chiller).

I'm curious whether the lead-free solder (and I'm not talking about silver-solder here) is suitable for beer-contact applications, as it is very easy for non-plumbers to use, without requiring very high temperatures, and special fluxes, etc.

 

[domonsura]

Sorry to be petty, but this is far from true.
The cheap rolls of solder are still 60/40 (Lead/Tin), with no other "unknowns" added. They have a flux core, which makes them a sinch to use, and the flux can be removed after the job is done with a decent solvent like acetone.

Fair enough, I was more refering to what is available from trade plumbing supplies, I've been told by a few of them that it has been illegal for them to sell lead-based solder for a long time, because what they supply gets used on potable water piping. Might not be so true of solders from hardware stores.

I wouldn't even consider using anything else other than silver solder in anything that even touches water or beer, once you have the hang of it it's extremely easy to use. About $2 a rod for 15% ag content.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Electronics solder is 60/40 lead/tin. some has a rosin core, some does not.

It is easy to pick because it is very soft and goes dark grey fairly quick.

Definatly would not be using it on brew related plumbing

Silver solder would be my choice. Just get a low silver content rod ( less than 5% ) as it will be easier to work with, and cheaper if you have had little practice soldering.. Correct flux is important as well.

Flux used for copper wont allow solder to flow on stainless. But that is getting off subject unless you want to solder your stainless braid to copper pipe.

Lastly, you wont need much, maybe about 4-5 inches at the most.

 

[newguy]

Lastly, you wont need much, maybe about 4-5 inches at the most.

Ever been interviewed by a reporter and had something you said quoted out of context? :angry:

 

[Blackfish]

Ever been interviewed by a reporter and had something you said quoted out of context? :angry:

LOL
Hey, its not how much you use It's how you use it!!

 

[Wortgames]

4-5 inches is fine as long as it is thick enough.

If it's too thin then you'll need a few more inches to get the job done.

h34r:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Nothing wrong with short and fat..


Long and thin gets to floppy and is hard to control...

h34r: