Consistency - Bottling vs kegging

[Chap]

Hi all

Hoping the topic matches the questions.

I'm having a few issues at the moment getting some sort of consistency with kegging most of my batch and bottling the remainder. The brews taste great from the keg, but the remaining beer that is bottled is thinner, lacking flavour, next to no head retention, and in my latest case, slightly oxidised. On the plus side with the bottles, clear as crystal.

I normally just bottle a 6 pack leaving me with enough in the fermenter to keep the tap hole covered, so hoping I'm not pulling too much if any trub from the fermenter into the bottles. As it's only a 6 pack I'm bottling, I'm using carb drops at this stage.

Has anyone had this issue before and/or any ideas to rectify? I'd really love my beer to taste the same from both the bottle or keg.

Cheers
Chap

 

[malt junkie]

If you've got good head retention in the keg, you should be fine on bottling the same brew . There are always a few caveats were the bottles cleaned in the same manner as the keg (explain your cleaning regime) and how healthy was the yeast at the end of ferment. Give us a run down on how the brew went, and how long you've bottle conditioned include bottle condition temps.

 

[JDW81]

Chap,

What is your bottling technique/what sort of bottles are you using/how are they stored/conditioned? There are lots of variables, so it would help to know how you go about it. Will make it a little easier to troubleshoot things for you.

Cheers,

JD

 

[Chap]

Cleaning the same as kegs - sodium perc soak for 30min minimum, rinsed and sanitised.
Bottling technique is direct from fermenter tap with bottling cane, stored in a cupboard at ambient temps of approx average 23 degrees no major swings. Glass 335-375ml stubbies pending what I have on hand. Unsure of yeast health at end, but looks like a nice consistently coloured thick slurry when I clean the fermenter. Current brew I'm drinking bottles of now went great, buttered with magnum, flavour and aroma Amarillo, dry hopped with Amarillo at 5 days.

If I had to guess it would be an oxidation issue in transfer, but as well as affecting flavour, would that also affect everything else?

 

[malt junkie]

commonly people blame oxidation on bottling, (guessing glass bottles stored in the dark)but yeast love that ****, so if naturally carbing doubtful as a cause for off flavours. By yeast health I mean the ferment from whoa to go. Pitch temp, OG, FG, any lag on ferment, yeast used, yeast prep, ferment temp, Volume, time on yeast. Bascically everything. If you have BrewPi post the log.


Better info better answers you'll get. You should have close to the same beer.(carb sugar being the difference)

 

[Chap]

No brew Pi here, still extract brewing but looking to go AG soon and build from there. I do however have my notes:

Yeast MJ44
Pitch temp 22oC
OG 1.048
FG 1.009
My standard 24hr lag
Rehydrated 1 pack in 100ml boiled and cooled water with 1 tsp dex at start of steep (90-120 min before pitching)
Ferment temp 18oC
23L batch
16 days in fermenter
Bottled 29/5/17
Fridged 5/7/17

Edit: bottle + fridge dates

 

[Rocker1986]

The yeast re-hydration process doesn't need any dextrose or any other sugar added to it, just water around 30-35C for 20 minutes then stir into a cream and pitch. If any sugar is going to be added it should be added after the yeast has already re-hydrated.

I don't bottle excess from batches much anymore, it mostly goes into a 10L keg that gets blended from different batches, but when I did the bottles never tasted the same as the kegged portion at the same amount of time after packaging. They weren't bad or anything; the kegged portion improved much quicker, but the bottles did get to the same level eventually if I left them long enough. Having said that, I didn't ever have any issues with the beer being thinner or lacking flavour/head retention.

 

[Brewno Marz]

I keg and sometimes bottle the left over. I find there is usually a difference between the two; mainly carbonation level, which has quite an influence on my perception of the beer...and probably on head retention.

 

[technobabble66]

Are your carbonation levels in the keg and bottle roughly the same? - ie: how it looks and tastes in the glass from both.
Moderately different carb levels could produce fairly different mouthfeel & flavour. Fwiw, I found 1 carb drop in a stubby (slightly) over carbonated the beer.
So if your keg was low carbed it would seem more full flavoured, whereas the bottled beer would seem thinner.

Having said that, my first thought with how you describe the beer from your bottles was that there was an infection. An infection should have slightly more dramatic effects or flavour impact, but in theory it (well, certain bugs) can simply produce thin watery flavourless beer. Might be worth checking sanitation of your bottling process.
2c

 

[Chap]

Update: opened another bottle, head retention and body much better, still having the cardboard flavour come through though [emoji17]

Are your carbonation levels in the keg and bottle roughly the same? - ie: how it looks and tastes in the glass from both.

I carb and serve at 12 psi. Not sure of the vol conversion of 1 carb drop or 12 psi but seems comparable to my tastes.

At a guess from the info so far: oxidation from bottling, and a possibly infected single bottle.

Anyone have preferable methods of bottling, bottle carbing and conditioning to get consistency across both bottled and kegged beer?

 

[Grott]

Anyone have preferable methods of bottling, bottle carbing and conditioning to get consistency across both bottled and kegged beer?

You can achieve top drops in both bottle and keg but I don't believe you can achieve consistency across both bottled and keg from the same fermented batch as IMO :-

* co2 carbonation of a keg gives a more "crisp/fresh" feel compared to what ever additive is put in the bottle to produce carbonation.
* in general there will be sediment in every bottle which can end up in the glass effecting outcome compared to generally nil in kegging (perhaps for the first few)
* carbonation remains consistent in the keg where it often varies from bottle to bottle, perhaps not by much but in comparison can be different to kegging.

 

[Rocker1986]

I tend to agree with Grott there. In a force carbed keg you don't have the second fermentation, which would have to affect the flavor even if only a small amount. That's a difference between the two straight away that really makes it hard to get consistency. You can probably get them close but they'll never be exactly the same. Kegs condition faster as well. I've also found the force carbed beer in kegs to have a more crisp/fresh taste than bottle carbed beer from the same batch, but as I said in my previous post the bottles do improve with time, maybe not quite to the same level but they do get better.