Commercial Brewing Practices

[.DJ.]

with all this new/VB/Tooheys Red talk I was wondering how to the "big guys" (LN and Carlton and the like) actually brew thier beer.. and how it compares to a small micro (Kooinda) and even a large micro (Little Creatures)

 

[crundle]

From memory, I think Thirsty Boy might work in one of the large breweries, so he might have an idea.

I think the ingredient missing in the large brewers is love.

Made up for by a large amount of sugar, cheap grain, bittering compunds and a massive advertising campaign to spruke their 'beers' as somehow being different to the 'beers' of their competitors. Watch Beer Wars for the great scene where drinkers would defend their 'brand' to the death against the competitors, but none could tell the difference in a blind test. Even taking into account the editing to give that result, it is pretty funny viewing!

Crundle

 

[buttersd70]

Yeah, TB's mentioned it a few times. iirc, the brewing is done at a higher gravity, often using up to 30% sugar; the hopping is done to come in below target, to allow for later adjustment; the beer is fermented, then analysed; it's then watered down the appropriate amount to give the correct abv based on the analysis, and hopping is then adjusted with isohop to give the correct bitterness.

 

[Bribie G]

I can't find any information about brewery tours at Tooheys, maybe they don't do one otherwise you could go and have a look for yourself. XXXX have a tour as does Fosters at Yatala, wouldn't mind doing the XXXX tour myself. When you drive past the Yatala Brewery that is right on the M1 you can see a big plate glass viewing gallery and a row of traditional mash tuns and coppers - looks impressive at night.
AFAIK the main difference between what we do and what they do is that they brew overgravity and reduce the beer to 'sale strength' afterwards using deoxygenated water, and Fosters use isohop on the way to the packing line but no hops in the kettles. XXXX on the other hand still boil golden cluster hop flowers in their kettles.

Also (Winkle could confirm this as he did the Fosters Tour) after fermentation the beer sometimes goes off in different pipes where it is 'dressed' separately with different isohops and colour adjustments using caramel to become for example VB or Melbourne Bitter out of the same mash.

 

[Luka]

This might shed some light on the matter.....

Natural Beer Promise

I especially love this part...

Beer foam, commonly referred to as the head, is a very important characteristic of beer. We minimise foaming during brewing so that there is more foam left in the final beer. We dont add anything to the finished beer to enhance or protect the beer foam in the glass.

Minimise foaming so there is more foam left in the beer!!! :lol:

 

[Adamt]

Reading between the lines:

- They ferment under pressure to reduce fermentation time
- They don't add anything at the end, but they add hop oils before the beer is "finished" to enhance the head.

 

[Bribie G]

On the Lion Nathan site I notice they don't add 'modified hop extracts' at any stage. This is probably a swipe at Fosters with their isohop which is added post fermentation. Also I think this is a reference to the fact that they used tetrahop to maintain foam but have obviously found a better way (maybe a better grain bill for XXXX gold????)

Their list of clearing agents is interesting: diatomaceous earth, Silica, Carrageen, PVPP. I already use the last 2 on the list. Hey where do I get this Silica Stuff h34r:

 

[drsmurto]

I can't find any information about brewery tours at Tooheys, maybe they don't do one otherwise you could go and have a look for yourself. XXXX have a tour as does Fosters at Yatala, wouldn't mind doing the XXXX tour myself. When you drive past the Yatala Brewery that is right on the M1 you can see a big plate glass viewing gallery and a row of traditional mash tuns and coppers - looks impressive at night.

Prison hooch! :beerbang:

 

[Murcluf]

This might shed some light on the matter.....

Natural Beer Promise

I especially love this part...



Minimise foaming so there is more foam left in the beer!!! :lol:

That site is such croc of marketing CRAP love the sugar cane and sack of yeast

 

[Bribie G]

Prison hooch! :beerbang:

Hahaha. My company (3) actually does the paging services for Yatala Labour Prison and I often wonder if they know there's another Yatala up thisaways. Yatala pies are actually quite good and Inner Circle Rum is brewed over the road so it's a tasty little spot round there :icon_cheers:

 

[HoppingMad]

Mate of mine just did a tour of the Fosters Brewery at the Victorian Plant.

Fosters have 6 x 70,000L fermenters on the go there according to him. They don't put the grain into the mash with sacks, the trucks tip them in after driving down the highway from Geelong. They have a heat transfer system that cools the wort and heats the strike water in the same go. Mashing is done with steam injection. The place is a major machine that employs thousands of people when you take in suppliers and contractors (including delivery drivers).

I've spoken to one of the Kooinda guys personally and have one of their brochures.

Kooinda do batches of 400L. On that amount you could assume they're not using tip-trucks to deliver grain! They cool their wort using a system that uses hosing running through the cold water in their backyard swimming pool - quite ingenious. They are tight-knit bunch of guys (4 people according to the press I've read) with a love for their product. They are working up to a point where they can brew full-time but from what I've been told from the Kooinda guy I spoke to a few months back they all have day-jobs and brew around work and family responsibilities. They also deliver a lot of the beer themselves.

So yeah, there's quite a difference between them it would seem.

Hopper.

 

[kevo]

We dont add anything to the finished beer to enhance or protect the beer foam in the glass.

How could they add anything to the finished beer?

If you have to add anything to it, it can't be finished.

Sorry, just being pedantic. :icon_cheers:

But seriously, I love the 'jargon' big brewers use and seeing it for what it is now that I understand the process. And I especially love speaking with people who don't understand the process/language/jargon using the brewery PR to try to convince me of the merits of the beer infront of us!

With double hopped regards,

Kev

 

[jayse]

The big breweries have Oompa loompas'

 

[T.D.]

On the Lion Nathan site I notice they don't add 'modified hop extracts' at any stage. This is probably a swipe at Fosters with their isohop which is added post fermentation.

Is this just for XXXX, or all Lion beers? Because I thought Extra Dry was brewed entirely without hops and then isohop was squirted in post fermentation???

 

[Bribie G]

Is this just for XXXX, or all Lion beers? Because I thought Extra Dry was brewed entirely without hops and then isohop was squirted in post fermentation???

I guess it's only for the Natural Beer Promise brews as opposed to the Industrial Enzyme Guarantee brews

 

[chappo1970]

The big breweries have Oompa loompas'

I bloody well knew it! <_<

Don't spose they have any spare Oompa Loompas' for my brewery do ya Jayse?

 

[avaneyk]

The big breweries have Oompa loompas'

 

[Katherine]

I bloody well knew it! <_<

Don't spose they have any spare Oompa Loompas' for my brewery do ya Jayse?

there scary creatures!

 

[Bribie G]

Chappo there's a guy on the forum today at Eagleby wants to attend an AG brew day, he can be your oompa loompa for the day

edit: he pm'd me with his personal photo

 

[chappo1970]

Chappo there's a guy on the forum today at Eagleby wants to attend an AG brew day, he can be your oompa loompa for the day

Do I have to give him back? Cause if he is a real Oompa Loompa then I ain't givin' him back! :angry: No friggin way he is mine!