Cold Conditioning Or Finings?

[petes180]

Hi all,

Once my brew is stable / stops fermenting, what would be the better way to acheive a clean clear finish before i bottle?

Cold condition it at about 2 - 4 deg's for a few days or use a packet of finings or both??

Would the finings have an adverse affect of outcome / flavour?

I'm in no great rush (besides really wanting a schooner of this delicious looking amber goodness) as this is my first HB and would like to have a good result at the end, looking like bottling day will be this Sunday.

Thanks
Pete.

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

What yeast and what is your grain bill?

 

[Charst]

Im only about 2 months into having a fermentation fridge to crash chill beer so currently im doing both. Cant report on flavour issues but if you do Chill for a period. ie two weeks seems to be what a lot of commercial breweries have their beer sitting in a "Bright Tank" for, then you'll end up with a lot less yeast going into bottle so you might have to wait a bit longer for carbonation before you can crack a fully carbonated beer. worth the wait so far in my opinion.

 

[kelbygreen]

both put fining in then start to crush chill. For the reference you are crush chilling IE: chilling fast for a short period. Cold conditioning is manly for lagers but ales do benefit from it. Cold conditioning is where you store the beer in fermenter, cube, keg or bottle for a extended period. I do it with lagers I ferment out then drop to .5-1 deg and leave for 4-5 weeks.

If you can get your fridge lower then 2 deg I would I have mine set at .5 for crush and cold conditioning

 

[Lecterfan]

My personal experience (I'm now AG brewing so YMMV), I'm using whirfloc in the kettle (not what you're talking about presumably), I used gelatine for a few brews at the end of primary and it certainly helped, BUT: I find cold conditioning to be my personal preference. I don't like using gelatine (and only used it for 3 or 4 brews - stopped using for personal reasons, no reflection on it's capability), you can also do a search on polyclar if you want (I have no experience with it).

Cold conditioning seems to drop a heap of stuff out of suspension. It is really great for beers that are served and drunk at slightly warmer temps (English pale ales/bitters...and for me APAs also)- they end up really bright and clear.

Good luck, happy brewing!

 

[petes180]

both put fining in then start to crush chill. For the reference you are crush chilling IE: chilling fast for a short period. Cold conditioning is manly for lagers but ales do benefit from it. Cold conditioning is where you store the beer in fermenter, cube, keg or bottle for a extended period. I do it with lagers I ferment out then drop to .5-1 deg and leave for 4-5 weeks.

If you can get your fridge lower then 2 deg I would I have mine set at .5 for crush and cold conditioning

Ok, Crush chilling is what im looking at, mix some finings up stir gently into wort and crush chill for a few days or would that not be long enough?

 

[kelbygreen]

I should add. As lecter said AG you rack off clear wort to the fermenter. With kegging more so then bottles (as you drink it that week not month or so later) with extract (didnt really notice it with kits as never kegged kits) the beer out of the ferementer is alot dirtier so to say, I think this is more to do with trub then yeast. I crush chilled a fermenter for 8 days at .5 deg and had the same result same yeast almost same OG with AG was id say at least 50% clearer.

here is a bit of a experiment I did. It did improve the beer but I found with the effort involved with it that it wasnt worth it for me, well that and I was making the transition to AG so thought If I do this to a extract I might as well spend the time on a AG brew.

LINK!

 

[kelbygreen]

I would use isinglass (cryofine). As its made for this purpose I have never used gelatine as if it worked so well all the good home brew shops would sell it. not saying it works or does the job but as I been told wouldnt you like to put in your beer something that is made to do what you want not a substitute. Use to the label CC for 3-4 days and then rack. With bottling I dont think its worth the extra effort just store upright in the fridge pour the whole bottle in one pour and stop when the sediment starts to come out. Id CC for 3-4 days then bottle dont use fining. If you want to next brew use isinglass and see if it makes a difference (oh and use the same yeast as different yeast are different).

S04 will compact like a rock but wont ferment out like us05. But us05 will ferment out more but wont compact like s04. I like nottingham is has a little of both worlds but still wont compact like S04 but better then Us05

 

[mwd]

I don't have the facility to crash chill so cannot comment but have gelatined a few times and noticed a good result. I use Wards edible gelatine available from supermarkets and only use about 1.5 teaspoons per batch. Find that it clears beer in about 3 days at ferment temperature. The yeast drops out but there is a kind of fluffy bottom that some tends to end up into the bottling bucket. The bottles seem to clear much faster with less sediment than if I don't use the gelatine. Plus points it is as cheap as chips.

polyclar will not aid yeast dropout as it is designed to get rid of chill proteins.

Did one brew with bentonite finings added at beginning of ferment and the beer ended up as clear as with a very firm yeastcake left behind in the fermenter.

 

[felten]

Crash chill, cold conditioning, (lagering) whatever you call it the idea is to get the beer as cold as possible without freezing it. Even a few days will help settle yeast out, but extending it out to a week will be better.

As for gelatine, I wouldn't bother if I'm CCing as I've not had good results with it, but I know a lot of people here on the forum don't have an issue with it, and there's breweries that use it with success as well.

If you're having problems with chill haze then you can polyclar in the primary a few days before you rack for bottling or w/e.

 

[yum beer]

if your going to cold crash your brew in the fridge dont worry about finnings. It wont make any difference.
If you arent going into the fridge, Yes put in finnings and let sit for 2-3 days before bottling.

 

[CONNOR BREWARE]

i'm not a fan of the extra additives myself. i Leave on the trub cake cake 2 days after ferment has reached stable target FG to allow conditioning, then crash chill for a weekish to clear. Rack, then couple more days at lagering temps. Bottle and or keg. Works well for me with nice clear beers. All times depend on how much time I have at hand. Although lately all the brews have been AG, using wirlfloc, since my mate started enabling my addiction. <_< and this is so far superior clearing to any partials or kits I've done.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Do both - they will both essentially do the same thing, but the finings make it happen a little faster and a little more "completely" in a given period of time. If you have no issue with adding an animal product to your beer, then there is no downside to the addition of finings, consider it a belts and braces approach - the finings might help and cant hurt.... so why wouldn't you?

Add the finings
Get the beer as cold as you can get it (don't go under 0, you probably wont freeze it but you might depending on your fridge)
Leave it cold for a week or two
Rack carefully to a bottling bucket and bottle from there after bulk priming.

As someone mentioned, the less yeast you have in the bottle, the longer it can take to condition, so if you get it really clear it might take an extra week or two to carbonate.

A bit of Gelatine or Isinglass, a bit of time in the cold and most importantly a bit of care when transferring (nothing helps if you just stir the yeast up again anyway) and you will have the least possible yeast in the bottle. You will still have to be careful pouring your beer though... so learn how to do that properly as well and you will be gold.

Enjoy your first beer and welcome to homebrewing.

TB

 

[stux]

I can get my beer clear enough to read writing through a glass without finings by crash chilling/lagering/cold conditioning in the primary.

so i prefer not to use finings

I keg btw

(but I do put seaweed in my boil :-/)

 

[Wolfy]

I also find that a period at very cold temps (usually 2degC for 2 days) is enough to drop most of the yeast out and make nice bright beer.
Use finings if you can't chill that low or don't have so much time, otherwise time and temperature will do the work for you.

However, I'm not sure that calling the process "cold crashing" is such a good idea, since chilling the beer rapidly may cause the yeast to throw off-flavours, and so its best to cool the beer over a number of hours (12-24) rather than as quickly as possible.

 

[petes180]

Good stuff, thanks guys, when i get home tonight from work, i'll more than likely take the chill option on this brew for 3 days before bottling, next time i use these ingredients i'll try the finings.

1 more question at this stage, when i bottle, is it ideal to keep the bottles at the same temp that i had the fermenter / wort at? and for how long before storing, or just bottle and store for as long as i can handle?


Cheers
Pete.

 

[glaab]

you'll need to keep it warm enough for the yeast to do it's thing Peter, about 20C for ale yeast. if it's too cold you'll crack them open in a month or so and they won't be carbed. What's "crush" chilling? sounds like a kiwi thung :icon_cheers:

 

[Pennywise]

Youll need to keep the bottles relativly warm (15-25c) so the yeast will be awake enough to eat the sugar for carbonation. Re finings, it works great, & if your happy to have fish swim bladders put through the brew then all will be good, me, I prefer chilling for a few days, seems to get me the same reults.

 

[The Giant]

I've found cold conditioning more effective than Finings
However, I also found cold conditioning resulted in the bottles taking longer to carb up
This is probably because less yeast is getting into the bottle and takes longer to eat the sugar.

I found using finings I could drink the beer after 2 weeks
however cold conditioning I found i had to wait 4 weeks before the beer was right to drink

In saying that its a lot nicer and clearer pouring a bottle that was cold conditioned. Less sediment in the bottle = easier to pour = clearer beer
Esp when impressing ur non home brew mates

 

[petes180]

both put fining in then start to crush chill. For the reference you are crush chilling IE: chilling fast for a short period. Cold conditioning is manly for lagers but ales do benefit from it. Cold conditioning is where you store the beer in fermenter, cube, keg or bottle for a extended period. I do it with lagers I ferment out then drop to .5-1 deg and leave for 4-5 weeks.

If you can get your fridge lower then 2 deg I would I have mine set at .5 for crush and cold conditioning

you'll need to keep it warm enough for the yeast to do it's thing Peter, about 20C for ale yeast. if it's too cold you'll crack them open in a month or so and they won't be carbed. What's "crush" chilling? sounds like a kiwi thung :icon_cheers:

sounds like a Kiwi thung, lol. I take it "crash" chilling is what youde rather it be called. either way, it will do the job. :icon_cheers: