Cold Conditioning Before Carbonation

[Dazza_devil]

G'devening Brewers,
I've only recently started cold crashing my brews to 1.5 degrees C for around 2 days before bulk priming then bottling and have noticed a drop in my expected carbonation rates. There is definitely less sediment in the bottom of my bottles but also less carbonation then I'm used to expecting. Has anyone else noticed a change in carbonation rates after cold crashing? Can I put this down to less yeast to carbonate, poorer quality yeast after such cold temps or another independant factor that I haven't considered?
Cheerezz

 

[raven19]

Cold crashing could drop out more yeast leading to a longer time required to carbonate fully.

What are your temps after bottling? I presume back to room temp - if so it could just need more time to carbonate.

Maybe give half of your next batch a shake after a week to test effects? Or even keep some a little warmer to see if carbonation speeds up?

 

[Dazza_devil]

Cold crashing could drop out more yeast leading to a longer time required to carbonate fully.

What are your temps after bottling? I presume back to room temp - if so it could just need more time to carbonate.

Maybe give half of your next batch a shake after a week to test effects? Or even keep some a little warmer to see if carbonation speeds up?

I have my bottles in the laundry cupboard and temps probably vary beween 12 and 17 degrees on average, a little more at times. Nothing has changed there except it's spring now and warmer average temps I would of thought to be an advantage to carbonation. Maybe a shake as you suggested will speed things up a little or even give an extra week or so to reach expected carbonation levels. I think cold crashing has improved my brews so if waiting a little longer for carbonation is needed, I can live with that no probs.
Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

Are you bulk priming or putting sugar in the bottles? If your beer is fairly clear on bottling and the solid grains of sugar sink down to the bottom where they can form a layer of syrup, then the few yeast cells that are in the beer also sink down into that syrup layer and promptly get zonked out. Inverting the bottles every day for a few days usually does the trick. You are more likely to get a 'stuck' carbonation when you cold crash because the beer is clearer and therefore less yeasties.

 

[Dazza_devil]

G'devening Brewers,
I've only recently started cold crashing my brews to 1.5 degrees C for around 2 days before bulk priming.

Are you bulk priming or putting sugar in the bottles?

Long day BribieG?
I reckon I might invert the bottles as you suggested though.
Me Stout and me Baltic Porter are really improving, can't say the same for me self but.
Cheers

 

[kabooby]

You are still going to have plenty of yeast after 2 days cold conditioning to carb up a bottle. It just needs time. If you are cold conditiong for several weeks then you may need to consider adding some yeast at bottling.

You also need to take into account the temp of your beer when calculating your priming sugar. If your beer is cold it will already have some c02 dissolved into it.

Kabooby :icon_cheers:

 

[Dazza_devil]

I usually take my fermenter out of my brew fridge and onto the kitchen bench a day before bottling. It gets a little stirred up when I'm movin it. I can't bottle it from the brew fridge so I put it in place and let it settle. The 24 hours or so usually brings it back up to around ambient.

 

[MaestroMatt]

Is there any problem with bottling first THEN cold crashing?

 

[Dazza_devil]

Is there any problem with bottling first THEN cold crashing?

I don't think so Maestro.
That's what I'd been doing, allowing 2-4 weeks for carbonation and then cold crashing my bottles in the fridge for a day or two before warming them to body temp. My beers were clear and delicious but had a fair amount of sediment in the bottom. This isn't a problem when I decant them into a jug before consumption but not good if I wanna take a bottle or two fishing. It's a bit hard to get them to the river without shakin them up and I like to put my bottles in the river attached to a piece of string to keep them cool.
I suspect that flavour would be affected by cold crashing, perhaps a good or bad thing depending on the particular style being brewed. I really can't assess any flavour differences personally because I've never brewed the same brew twice.

 

[marlow_coates]

Boagsy and Matt,

I suspect there is some confusion with crash chilling, but apologies in advance if I am not understanding your posts.

'Crash chilling' is done in the fermenter to drop yeast out of suspension.
This makes for a more clear beer.
It can be done in the primary fermentation vessel, or the secondary if you rack.
It is usually done for 24hrs or more, sometimes up to a week.
After the beer in the fermenter is clear it is racked to another vessel (some people don't do this), and has priming sugar added, and is then bottled.
The bottles are left at room temp for a couple of weeks to carbonate.
There is enough yeast left in the crash chilled beer to get into the bottle, and eat the extra priming sugars, and carbonate your bottle.

This process is usually done for Ales, and will improve beer clarity, decrease sediment on the bottom of your bottles (but not remove it), and some say it will improve flavour.


The term 'cold conditioning' refers to conditioning Lagers (thats how I understand it anyway).
A lager is brewed, then has the temp raised for a Diacetyl rest near the end of fermentation, and is then often racked to another vessel and temps are brought right down.
The beer will sit for around 4 weeks at this temperature 'cold conditioning'.
Afterwards, it can be racked to another vessel, bulk primed and bottled (some add yeast here as the amounts coming across are tiny and may fail to carbonate in the bottle)


I don't know if it is called crash chilling if you do it in the bottle. I would suspect not though.
Basically if you sit the bottled beer in the fridge for a couple of days prior to drinking, the yeast will drop out of suspension, but is still in the bottle and therefore can be disturbed and make the beer murky again, and interfere with flavour.
Crash chilling is done to reduce the sediment going into the bottle so that when you get it out of the fridge and pour it, there is minimal sediment to be disturbed.

Hope this helps,

Marlow

 

[Dazza_devil]

Boagsy and Matt,

I suspect there is some confusion with crash chilling, but apologies in advance if I am not understanding your posts.

'Crash chilling' is done in the fermenter to drop yeast out of suspension.
This makes for a more clear beer.
It can be done in the primary fermentation vessel, or the secondary if you rack.
It is usually done for 24hrs or more, sometimes up to a week.
After the beer in the fermenter is clear it is racked to another vessel (some people don't do this), and has priming sugar added, and is then bottled.
The bottles are left at room temp for a couple of weeks to carbonate.
There is enough yeast left in the crash chilled beer to get into the bottle, and eat the extra priming sugars, and carbonate your bottle.

This process is usually done for Ales, and will improve beer clarity, decrease sediment on the bottom of your bottles (but not remove it), and some say it will improve flavour.


The term 'cold conditioning' refers to conditioning Lagers (thats how I understand it anyway).
A lager is brewed, then has the temp raised for a Diacetyl rest near the end of fermentation, and is then often racked to another vessel and temps are brought right down.
The beer will sit for around 4 weeks at this temperature 'cold conditioning'.
Afterwards, it can be racked to another vessel, bulk primed and bottled (some add yeast here as the amounts coming across are tiny and may fail to carbonate in the bottle)


I don't know if it is called crash chilling if you do it in the bottle. I would suspect not though.
Basically if you sit the bottled beer in the fridge for a couple of days prior to drinking, the yeast will drop out of suspension, but is still in the bottle and therefore can be disturbed and make the beer murky again, and interfere with flavour.
Crash chilling is done to reduce the sediment going into the bottle so that when you get it out of the fridge and pour it, there is minimal sediment to be disturbed.

Hope this helps,

Marlow

Thanks Marlow,
I think I may have caused some confusion with my terminology.
My topic should of read, Cold Crashing before Carbonation.
So chilling in the bottles without prior Cold Crashing does clear the beer up but sediment can be disturbed and resuspend the yeast. I've never had a problem with stirring my yeast up before decanting to jug but I'm very careful with them and they don't have to travel very far. I can see the advantages of cold crashing and I think I'll be continuing the practice, resurveying carbonation levels and possibly inverting the bottles before chilling to consume.
I do have a Foreign Extra Stout and a Baltic Porter cold conditioning in the bottles. The brews weren't cold crashed and were allowed 4 weeks in the bottles for carbonation before putting them in the beer fridge to condition.

 

[marlow_coates]

They sound tasty Boagsy,

I usually tip the bottles each day after bottling for 3 or 4 days to make sure the yeast can do it's thing efficiently and quickly.
In brisbane though it is rarely cold enough to prevent the bottle carbing up.
This seems to speed up bottle carbonation, but most are stored for at least a month before drinking so probably do it out of habit more than anything now.

Since moving to crash chilling, prior to bulk priming and bottling, I find there is such a small amount of sediment in the bottles, that I can easily take a 6 pack in the car to a party, and still pour crystal clear beers.
This also depends on the yeast though, as some are disturbed more easily than others.
Some breweries that bottle condition, will cold condition their beers, then filter out the yeast, then add another yeast that will carb up their bottles, and produce a very tight sediment on the bottom. (this also protects their breweries yeast).

Good luck with it,

Marlow