Chinese Varieties

[Steve]

Product
SAAZ aroma hop pellets(SA-1) (T-90)
Chinese Saaz (SA-1) comes from Female Saaz and Male Tettnang.
The taste is the same as any premium SE Asian Beer.

Specification
a acids: 4.3%% -Acids: 2.0%-4.0%


Product
CLUSTER bitter hop pellets(Qingdao Dahua) (T-90)
Good all round workhorse hop, XXXX flavour hop

Specification
a-Acids 6.6% -Acids>3.5%


Product
MARCO POLO (COLUMBUS) hop pellets (T-90)
Typical APA flavours from USA beers

Specification
a-Acids>12% -Acids>3.0%


Product
CASCADE aroma hop pellets (T-90)
Not as strong as USA type, more rounded citris flavours.

Specification
a-Acids 5.8% B-Acids 4.0-6.0 %


Product
Nugget bittering hop pellet (T-90)
Typical nugget flavours

Specifications
a-Acids>12% -Acids>3.0%


To make it easier for everyone please put your reviews of each hop here. If possible, can those who have already posted in the various Chinese hop threads cut n paste their posts in here?
Cheers
Steve

 

[benno1973]

Chinese Cascade Review

Bitterness: A really nice bitterness from these hops. I've used Cascade before to bitter and found them to be harsh/rough, so pleasantly surprised. I didn't go over the top bittering this one - it was somewhere in the 50-55IBU range which is pretty sedate for an IPA, but I didn't want the feeling that a cat had clawed my tongue out, more the bitterness that you'd associate with an English IPA. Something like Sam Smiths India Ale, or Meantime IPA. So check one for bitterness, very happy.

Flavour: Actually, quite nice. A little one dimensional, but I find US Cascade to be that way also. I get candied orange peel flavours, although the malt bill has a fair whack of CaraMunich II which probably accentuates this. The flavour isn't over the top, a little subdued, and could probably use something else to provide a bit more interest. Certainly not the over-the-top flavours that we might get from Amarillo or Nelson Sauvin. Some might say that's a good thing.

Aroma: Almost negligible. Strangely, I would have thought that the amount of hops thrown in would have been enough to really punch out some aroma in this beer, but there's not a lot there. There's some vague citrus notes, but nothing outstanding and the malt bill easily competes with the hops in the aroma. Personally, I like it, but it certainly wasn't what I was aiming for, and if I was looking for a huge aromatic IPA I'd be disappointed.

So the verdict? Well, after all the discussion and passionate debate from either side, I hate to go middle of the road, but I just have to. Great bittering hop, nice subdued flavour (which I might use in conjunction with something else, possibly US Cascade would compliment nicely?) and little aroma. Would I buy it again? Definitely at this price. If it was the same price as all other hops, possibly not, but who can go past $14/kg? As others have said, I'll be using it as a bittering workhorse, and possibly combine it with other hops to make up for the areas that it's lacking in. All in all, I totally agree with Daemon who already posted pretty much the same review at the start of the week!

 

[Ross]

Chinese Cascade - Can't really add much to Kaiser Soze's excellent review. I found them also a little earthy & was dissapointed that the brew I tasted had 300gms+ thrown at it, but the flavour/aroma was more like 50gms. A pleasant beer though.

Marco Polo - A slightly one dimensional lemony/grapefruit aroma flavour, but totally spoilt by a firm lingering bitterness that coats the back of the throat. I'm guessing these have been grown for Alpha Acid extraction rather than for direct brewing. I've seen a few other actual reviews around & everyone has made the same comments.

Cheers Ross

 

[daemon]

I've made two brews with the Chinese Cascade now and overall not happy enough to proceed with the next buy. I had brewed a basic APA to a very similar recipe that I'd used previously with US Cascade hops. Initial impressions is that there is simply no aroma in these hops, something very unlike most US and NZ grown varieties. The flavour is very subdued and doesn't have the distinct crispness of the US/NZ grown variety, I get more lemon than citrus. I don't really like the flavour as a single hop, they need to be blended with something else to make the beer worthwhile. If you want to use them for aroma (0 min / dry hop etc) you'll need to at least triple the usual amount, something that negates most of the savings from going with cheaper hops. After two weeks in the keg it's lost all aroma and a lot of flavour.

The 2nd brew was more of a "Summer Ale", designed as a basic quaffer for Xmas day (no aroma, low IBU's, low hop flavour). This was a much better match and while it worked it still wasn't an outstanding beer. The bittering isn't as clean as varieties such as Super Alpha so I'm hesitant to use them for bittering in brew with other hops. Will try another Summer Ale soon with a 90min addition only to see if it's usable there.

I question their freshness as well, they simply don't compare to the hops from other suppliers. Cheaper yes but simply no where near the same quality as the usual suppliers. Worth a try from Ross for a $1.50 if you want to test it for yourself, just understand all the feedback listed first.

 

[Carboy]

Hi everyone,

Today I set down my second AG brew and it was a Pilsner made with Chinese Hops. All temps and Brewhouse efficiencies were exactly on the mark but I have to say that this was the first time after 48 brews that I had to spit out my hydrometer sample.

The hop addition was...
25g Marco Polo (60 minutes)
20g Saaz (20 minutes)
15g Saaz (15 minutes)
10g Saaz (10 minutes)
10g Saaz (0 minutes) the expected IBU was 41.2

The sample was very, very grassy and unpleasant to the mouth, and in the bottom of the boiler the hops looked like mud and didn't smell right :icon_vomit:

I'm still learning, and after my first AG tasting sooooo gooood with LHBS hops, I have to say I will not use the remainder of my of Chinese hops (2.92kg)....its not worth the disappointment after 5 hours work.

Fingers crossed the brew will settle down after fermentation :unsure: I'm glad I learnt this lesson early!

Happy New Year!

Cheers
Carboy :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

I have two Chinese brews in the keg and drinking. However they were both blended with other hops. I have:

A Belgian blonde with 80g C Saaz 60 mins and 2 Styrian plugs 10 minutes. Nothing 'off' in the hop flavour and a light bittering, but apart from some perfume from the Styrians there isn't the hop aroma hit you get from a Leffe etc.
A UK bog standard special bitter with ale malt and crystal with 50g C Cluster 60 mins and 20g Challenger 10 mins. Can't fault the bittering but the flavour and aroma are struggling against the malt and crystal flavours rather than blending in, and at this stage it's definitely toffee/crystal driven.

I have an all C Saaz international style lager that has been in cold conditioning for nearly two weeks. I'll polyclar it today and bottle it next Monday - this will be the 'crunch' brew. Wort tasted pleasant enough. I'll sneak a taste with the turkey baster and report this afternoon.


Edit: good I got in before the editing window expired. The sample was excellent in colour and clarity, no discernible hop aroma but a fair amount of bittering from the C Saaz and a fairly mellow flavour. However some aroma would be nice to balance the noticeable bittering. As an International style - e.g. Kingfisher or Singha, it should be showing a bit of Saaz or Hallertau aroma - I may hit it up half the bottles with some tea, maybe from a Styrian plug. I'm bottling this whole batch and let it mature on for a couple of months. Anyway I won't be using this C Saaz by itself again.

 

[Steve]

I've made one double batch with these hops. It was with cluster to 25IBU's with BB Ale and some crystal. Ive had to resort to giving each glass a dash of lime cordial to cancel out the sharp bitter isohop taste at the back of the throat (as in an English lager n lime). Without it, its very undrinkable (even for me). Very reluctant to use the remaining hops. If I did it would only be a single batch instead of my usual doubles to avoid the possible disappointment.

Cheers
Steve

P.S. Carboy, the bottom of my kettle also looked like mud. It was actually brown, didnt smell of anything and was actually harder to clean.

 

[bradsbrew]

I've made one double batch with these hops. It was with cluster to 25IBU's with BB Ale and some crystal. Ive had to resort to giving each glass a dash of lime cordial to cancel out the sharp bitter isohop taste at the back of the throat (as in an English lager n lime). Without it, its very undrinkable (even for me). Very reluctant to use the remaining hops. If I did it would only be a single batch instead of my usual doubles to avoid the possible disappointment.

Cheers
Steve

P.S. Carboy, the bottom of my kettle also looked like mud. It was actually brown, didnt smell of anything and was actually harder to clean.

Steve I think that the cluster is a Higher AA than we have been quoted?? I too have found the bitterness higher than expected. I had alot more sweeter malts in the batches which has helped with the overbitterness.

Brad

 

[Steve]

I've made one double batch with these hops. It was with cluster to 25IBU's with BB Ale and some crystal. Ive had to resort to giving each glass a dash of lime cordial to cancel out the sharp bitter isohop taste at the back of the throat (as in an English lager n lime). Without it, its very undrinkable (even for me). Very reluctant to use the remaining hops. If I did it would only be a single batch instead of my usual doubles to avoid the possible disappointment.

Cheers
Steve

P.S. Carboy, the bottom of my kettle also looked like mud. It was actually brown, didnt smell of anything and was actually harder to clean.

This cluster has really mellowed out. Its now very drinkable and quite a good summer quaffer! Things are looking good. Quite confident to give them another go. If anyone in Canberra wants a few hundred grams of either Cluster, Saaz and Cascade to try out. Give me a hoy. Free of course.
Cheers
Steve

Edit: Im used to drinking my beers after a week in the fermenter and then force carbed. I like them green. Obviously this cluster needs a while to mellow out.

 

[Bribie G]

Steve, I used 50g of the Cluster as bittering with Challenger for aroma, and also had the bitter twang but mine is also mellowing out over a week. I've got another 50g job with Northdown as the finishing hop and I'm going to crack one this afternoon. Even though the Challenger was a late addition it would probably have added some bittering so let's see. I kegged and bottled the Chinese Pale Pilsener last night and I seem to have achieved the beer with no aroma :lol: I'll take a couple of bottles to BABBs in a couple of weeks. I reckon this one will be perfect for a shot of Bickfords lime - Radler anyone?

 

[Steve]

I reckon this one will be perfect for a shot of Bickfords lime - Radler anyone?

:lol: Thats the lime I was using last week. Nice bottle hey? Dont need it anymore though. Let us know how they go.
Cheers
Steve

 

[QldKev]

I done a batch with Chinese Saaz on the weekend; it was on Gregs 3V system (thanks Greg)

The 50L recipie I used
Hallertau Mittlefrueh 110g 60min (German)
Saaz 110g 40min (Chinese)
Saaz 110g 20min (Chinese)

Off the kettle I noticed virtually no hop aroma with the Saaz additions. You know that blast of smell you get on the kettle addition. I found the Saaz did not want to stay in the boil; I had to keep mixing them back in - good or bad not sure, but have never seen this prior. Now the bit of concern after flame out once the boil had settled down, and prior to whirl pooling I noticed an oily film floating on top of the wort. I have never seen this before and although I am going to still drink the beer, I am concerned at what it could have been. Maybe it is just the oils out of the higher than normal usage of hops? (The amounts used was as per the Budvar recipe)

Will give you tasting notes prior to fermenting and once ready for drinking.

QldKev

 

[Bribie G]

Cracked the first bottle of the Chinese Cluster + Northdown and I've posted pics on the 'what's in the glass' thread. It's not overly bitter although I used the same 50g as the other brew, I think I was probably right about the Challenger, this brew with Northdown is much more fragrant and milder in the bitterness. Yum. However the Saaz are a dead loss and I'll probably toss them.

 

[benno1973]

BribieG - what's wrong with the Saaz? I did a rice lager the other day with all Chinese Saaz and it tastes terrible out of the fermenter. I'm holding off on a review until the beer is completely fermented, but I'd be interested to hear what you think of them.

Don't worry, just saw your edit on your previous post. No flavour/aroma to balance the bitterness.

 

[Steve]

Cracked the first bottle of the Chinese Cluster + Northdown and I've posted pics on the 'what's in the glass' thread. It's not overly bitter although I used the same 50g as the other brew, I think I was probably right about the Challenger, this brew with Northdown is much more fragrant and milder in the bitterness. Yum. However the Saaz are a dead loss and I'll probably toss them.

Shame about the saaz. Bribie, let me know if you get bad guts after a good few glasses of the cluster beer will you?
Cheers
Steve

 

[Bribie G]

Shame about the saaz. Bribie, let me know if you get bad guts after a good few glasses of the cluster beer will you?
Cheers
Steve

I had about six pints of the #1 Cluster ale last night, didn't do me any harm :lol:

 

[gregs]

Never mind the poor aroma; has anyone queried the processors standards in food safety. I dont want to cause a stir but after seeing the oil slick and white plastic looking stuff after flame out on QldKevs Budvar I would be asking questions.

Oh and Kev you will be drinking that one on your own.

 

[winkle]

I going to take a leaf out of Bribies book and attempt to rescue the Marco Polo with a sticklebrac hop tea. This is a hop I'll probably chuck.
Then I'll boost the aroma in the AIPA I brewed using Chinese Nugget (bittering) and Chinese Cascade (flavour and "aroma" additions) with a US Cascade hop tea. The flavour of this one is quite good and I will probably brew it again with US cascade in for late hopping.

Edit: I might bring a before and after bottle of each to BABBs ( the Marco Polo was a SMASH , 70 IBUs)

 

[.DJ.]

ahhhhh..... sounds like the "guaranteed" hops are getting better by the day!

 

[AndrewQLD]

I have a BULK GIVEAWAY if anyone is interested,

These hops are a real disappointment to me and as such I really can't expect anyone to buy them, Marco Polo are very astringent with a back of the throat bitterness that lingers long after the beer is drunk, initially I thought they were Ok but on further sampling I can't get past the horrible bitterness, I haven't tried them as flavour or aroma and don't intend to.
Cluster are very poor quality as well that made me think of tea.

500g Chinese Marco polo
900g Chinese Cluster

The catch is, you have to take them all in one hit, I am not splitting them, I just can't be bothered.
And, please don't blame me if your beer is not up to standard.

First to Pm me wins :huh:
Cheers
Andrew