Chimay yeast cultivation

[trustyrusty]

hi
Has anyone got yeast from chimay beer? It is live yeast..they use yeast in bottle to carbonate - not sure if the same used in first fermentation

9.00 a bottle not cheap...
cheers

 

[MHB]

To the best of my knowledge it isn't the brewing yeast, from what I have heard its a lager strain (probably 34/70).
Belgian brewers are a funny bunch, they will tell you anything about their beer that you could possibly want to know - provided you don't ask about the yeast. They wont even drop hints...
Mark

 

[goatchop41]

9.00 a bottle not cheap...

For that price, and the hassle of culturing enough yeast to pitch in to a full batch of beer, you may as well just buy the actual strain

 

[MHB]

Agreed, or the Wyeast equivalent, which ever is easiest to access.
Fermentation temperature plays a big roll in the flavour of the finished beer.

 

[trustyrusty]

Sorry did not know you could buy, thought it was a secret? Is this the actual yeast or equivalent?

Thanks

 

[hoppy2B]

Sorry did not know you could buy, thought it was a secret? Is this the actual yeast or equivalent?

Thanks

I've cultured it and found it pretty easy to get going.

It seems to be the yeast that was used for primary ferment. I did a lot of searching online to try and verify if it was the primary ferment yeast and the consensus seems to be that it is.

Getting a yeast to produce optimum levels of esters requires a degree of knowledge and skill.

 

[trustyrusty]

is it a good yeast, did make a difference? Was it an ale?
thanks

 

[goatchop41]

Sorry did not know you could buy, thought it was a secret? Is this the actual yeast or equivalent?

What White Labs and Wyeast offer is supposed to be the actual Chimay yeast.

is it a good yeast, did make a difference? Was it an ale?

Yes, in my opinion it does make a big difference. I have used WLP500 and both of Mangrove Jacks' abbey dried yeasts for Belgian style ales, and found that WLP500 was the only one of the three that gave me the flavour profile that I would associate with classic Belgian tripels. I pushed them all up to 22-24oC

 

[ABG]

Yes, in my opinion it does make a big difference. I have used WLP500 and both of Mangrove Jacks' abbey dried yeasts for Belgian style ales, and found that WLP500 was the only one of the three that gave me the flavour profile that I would associate with classic Belgian tripels. I pushed them all up to 22-24oC

Agreed. WLP500 is better than either of the Wyeast or MJ equivalents (and I rate them in that order too). I'm also a fan of the WLP530 (Westmalle). When the ABV starts climbing up to 9% and above, my preference swings from the 500 to the 530, but of course that all comes down to personal preferences. You can make a very good beer with any of the above mentioned yeast varieties. Just try to be as patient as an abbey monk and not drink any of it for 12 months. Belgian Strong Ales really shine after extended conditioning.

 

[hoppy2B]

is it a good yeast, did make a difference? Was it an ale?
thanks

It started fermenting in a couple of days. I only used 1 stubby that I bought at Dan Murphy's. The starter had heaps of banana when I had a sniff. Smelled exactly like the Chimay tasted. I've cultured numerous yeast starters and I know I wouldn't get that sort of aroma from just any yeast. I used it in a 12% NEIPA that has a ridiculous amount of hops in it, so can't really tell what sort of character it has imparted. (Split batch with 3 different yeasts.) It does seem like an ale yeast.

I've tried culturing Weihenstephaner hefe yeast from a 500 ml bottle on 2 occasions. The first time it took 6 days to get going and the second time didn't go at all. I mention that because the the Chimay and Weihenstephaner have exactly the same sort of yeast character. It's interesting that the yeast from the higher abv beer appears to be in better condition, which is contrary to what a lot of people believe would be the case.

Add some dextrose to your starters, it's easier for the yeast to digest and start working.

You'll never know if the bottle yeast is any good unless you try it. Some people on here purport to be experts on the bottle yeast but in the real world they have never cultured the yeast from the bottle, so they're just talking hearsay from someone else's hearsay. And so the myths begin.

 

[hoppy2B]

I should mention that I cultured the yeast from a Chimay dubbel.

It's so much easier to get hold of a bottle of Chimay from a Dan Murphy's for me than it is to get to the nearest home-brew store, which is a lot further away and may not even have a smack pack or vial of the right yeast.

There are certainly instances of commercial breweries using a different yeast for bottling. It's easy enough to make a starter. If the yeast is dead or the starter doesn't smell like what you're looking for just chuck it out.

I think the Chimay bottle yeast is good and I recommend it.

 

[goatchop41]

Add some dextrose to your starters, it's easier for the yeast to digest and start working.

I would 100% disagree with this, it's not a good idea at all.

Firstly, DME will have FAN, some degree of trace minerals, etc., all of which are very helpful when you're trying to increase production of new cells and encourage good cell health. Dextrose will have none of this.
Secondly, the yeast will somewhat acclimatise themselves to fermenting simple sugars like dextrose - then when it comes time for you to ask them to ferment more complex maltose, etc., they will likely get a bit stressed and either produce off flavours, or just crap out and give you a lower attenuation.

If you want to help the yeast get firing, throw some actual yeast nutrient in there, that's literally what it's for. What you have suggested will pretty much do the complete opposite of what is desired from a yeast starter.

 

[ABG]

I used it in a 12% NEIPA that has a ridiculous amount of hops in it, so can't really tell what sort of character it has imparted. (Split batch with 3 different yeasts.) It does seem like an ale yeast.

Woah, a 12% NEIPA!!! And fermented with Chimay yeast. I love trying crazy sh!t like that. Well off topic here, but curious to know how it tasted. Did it drink like a 12% beer, or did the yeast do a good job of hiding the 'heat' of the alcohol? Did the hops still shine through? I'm curious to know how you balanced the need for a high ABV beer to condition for an extended period with the need to drink a NEIPA while the hops are super fresh.

 

[MHB]

If you used enough hops to call it a NEIPA, personally I doubt you could taste any other flavours and its by design, out of balance!
Ok not my favorite sty
Mark

 

[hoppy2B]

I would 100% disagree with this, it's not a good idea at all.

Firstly, DME will have FAN, some degree of trace minerals, etc., all of which are very helpful when you're trying to increase production of new cells and encourage good cell health. Dextrose will have none of this.
Secondly, the yeast will somewhat acclimatise themselves to fermenting simple sugars like dextrose - then when it comes time for you to ask them to ferment more complex maltose, etc., they will likely get a bit stressed and either produce off flavours, or just crap out and give you a lower attenuation.

If you want to help the yeast get firing, throw some actual yeast nutrient in there, that's literally what it's for. What you have suggested will pretty much do the complete opposite of what is desired from a yeast starter.

I think you have misconstrued what I was getting at. I said to add "some" dextrose. I certainly wouldn't use straight dextrose for a starter. I always add yeast nutrient to my starters. I typically use some brown sugar + dry malt extract + dextrose. Sucrose and maltose are both double molecules, which the yeast first needs to expend energy breaking down to single molecules. Adding a bit of dextrose just makes it easier for the yeast.

You'll have more chance of starting an old yeast from a bottle if you add some dex. The yeast may be too depleted to break down more complex sugars.

After trying to culture the yeast from numerous bottles, the 3 I would recommend with some confidence are:

• Coopers (Pale Ale);
• White Rabbit White Ale; and
• Chimay Dubbel.

The White Rabbit is a Wit, and the yeast from the bottle will make your beer taste like a Wit. It's pretty good if you are into Wit.

 

[hoppy2B]

Woah, a 12% NEIPA!!! And fermented with Chimay yeast. I love trying crazy sh!t like that. Well off topic here, but curious to know how it tasted. Did it drink like a 12% beer, or did the yeast do a good job of hiding the 'heat' of the alcohol? Did the hops still shine through? I'm curious to know how you balanced the need for a high ABV beer to condition for an extended period with the need to drink a NEIPA while the hops are super fresh.

I haven't dry hopped for a while because I think it is a source of infection. I bottle and my beer doesn't seem to keep very well when dry hopped. If I kegged and kept the beer cold I would want to dry hop and drink the beer quickly. Probably does keep a bit better at 12 percent, and if I go that high with abv again, I may consider dry hopping. If I was going to dry hop I would use less hops late in the kettle to reduce the need for ageing.

The 3 yeasts I used were: Chimay; Wy1469; and Wy1318. The Wy1469 gave the best attenuation, followed closely by the Chimay, and the Wy1318 finished at about 10% abv. I pitched the yeast on the 4th of August exactly 1 year ago to the day, lol.

The recipe was an all grain plus a kilo of dextrose, and a kilo of dark brown sugar. I included some oats, 200 grams Caraaroma, 200 Melanoiden, 200 Brown malt, 100 Carafa 1, 100 Dark Crystal, 100 Medium Crystal. (To give some idea of the flavour contributors and colour.) The total was only 23 litres.

I used POR for bittering, and a truckload of something Saaz like that I grew and which I added when the temp dropped down to 80 degrees. (I no chill.)

Tasted unreal before I fermented it. Flavours included liquorice, cinnamon and spice. Once fermented it became a bit more herbal from the hops and definitely needed ageing. The hops and malt cover any hot alcohol if it is there. Does have some brandy type notes to it though, but they compliment the flavours well. I left it out in the shed over summer to speed the ageing. Not normally what I would do, but it has worked.

My favourite flavour wise is definitely the one fermented with Wy1318. It's just fruitier. Chimay doesn't highlight the hops as well but still easy to drink.

To be honest, I think the yeasts conked a little bit because the carbonation levels are a bit low. But that is kind of within style so it works anyway.

 

[hoppy2B]

If you used enough hops to call it a NEIPA, personally I doubt you could taste any other flavours and its by design, out of balance!
Ok not my favorite sty
Mark

The hops are full on but it has a fair amount of spec malt to balance it. And you're right, definitely can't taste the yeast character, although can see the difference between different yeasts.

Chimay is a yeast you want to shine through for it own sake. I wouldn't recommend it for the average NEIPA because other yeasts are available that highlight hops better. I split my batch and threw different yeasts at it because I was concerned the yeast would conk and wanted to spread the risk.

 

[The Mack]

I haven't dry hopped for a while because I think it is a source of infection. I bottle and my beer doesn't seem to keep very well when dry hopped. If I kegged and kept the beer cold I would want to dry hop and drink the beer quickly. Probably does keep a bit better at 12 percent, and if I go that high with abv again, I may consider dry hopping. If I was going to dry hop I would use less hops late in the kettle to reduce the need for ageing.

The 3 yeasts I used were: Chimay; Wy1469; and Wy1318. The Wy1469 gave the best attenuation, followed closely by the Chimay, and the Wy1318 finished at about 10% abv. I pitched the yeast on the 4th of August exactly 1 year ago to the day, lol.

The recipe was an all grain plus a kilo of dextrose, and a kilo of dark brown sugar. I included some oats, 200 grams Caraaroma, 200 Melanoiden, 200 Brown malt, 100 Carafa 1, 100 Dark Crystal, 100 Medium Crystal. (To give some idea of the flavour contributors and colour.) The total was only 23 litres.

I used POR for bittering, and a truckload of something Saaz like that I grew and which I added when the temp dropped down to 80 degrees. (I no chill.)

Tasted unreal before I fermented it. Flavours included liquorice, cinnamon and spice. Once fermented it became a bit more herbal from the hops and definitely needed ageing. The hops and malt cover any hot alcohol if it is there. Does have some brandy type notes to it though, but they compliment the flavours well. I left it out in the shed over summer to speed the ageing. Not normally what I would do, but it has worked.

My favourite flavour wise is definitely the one fermented with Wy1318. It's just fruitier. Chimay doesn't highlight the hops as well but still easy to drink.

To be honest, I think the yeasts conked a little bit because the carbonation levels are a bit low. But that is kind of within style so it works anyway.

That is the craziest malt bill I think I've ever seen for a NEIPA... I've not really heard of people using dark brown sugar, caraaroma, melanoiden, brown malt, carafa or dark /medium crystal (as a general rule) let alone POR and any noble type hops..

Then again, using a Belgian strain is also not really what I would think is appropriate for the style, or cinnamon/ liquorice/ spice flavours.

 

[hoppy2B]

That is the craziest malt bill I think I've ever seen for a NEIPA... I've not really heard of people using dark brown sugar, caraaroma, melanoiden, brown malt, carafa or dark /medium crystal (as a general rule) let alone POR and any noble type hops..

Then again, using a Belgian strain is also not really what I would think is appropriate for the style, or cinnamon/ liquorice/ spice flavours.

Yeah, no argument here. I just called it a NEIPA because I used a lot of hops late.

When you think about it, the term Black IPA is a bit of a conundrum too.

 

[goatchop41]

Yeahhhhhhh, that's definitely not a NEIPA of any sort, is it. It's just a weird IPA