Chilling The No-chill?

[argon]

not sure I follow that logic?, why top crop back to the 30L?

Just had a thought.. along the lines of using yeast cake.... what about brewing a 23L batch in the 60L fermenter then rack this to secondary (and later into a corny) and dump 3 x 20L batches on the yeast cake from the 23L batch?

I have a 23L batch of the same brew that I am putting down tonight or tomorrow....

Yep could do that... but of course it's be a massive over pitch. Remember the 7.6L starter from before? Well the 23L batch is just like a 23L starter. So you'll only need about 1/3 of the yeast it produces.

3 cups should suffice for the 60L. Once racked from your 60. Leave about a third of the yeast in there (depending on wort gravity) But i'd say this will be your easiest method

 

[MetalRooster]

nice. i think i'll go with this approach.

Thanks!

 

[the_new_darren]

You'll have a hell of a time providing enough beer for 60L though. 60L of 1.048 requires 7.7L of simple starter or 3 packs of dry yeast.

What? I alway make 60 litre batches and have only ever used 1 pack of yeast. Did this on saturday and the beer is finished today @20C.

I would be able to taste the "preservative" in 3 packs of yeast in a 60 litre batch.

I cant see a problem with the OP original idea.


cheers

TN_Darren

 

[argon]

What? I alway make 60 litre batches and have only ever used 1 pack of yeast. Did this on saturday and the beer is finished today @20C.

I would be able to taste the "preservative" in 3 packs of yeast in a 60 litre batch.

I cant see a problem with the OP original idea.


cheers

TN_Darren

What's your reasoning for using this amount of yeast?
How many yeast cells are you pitching to your wort?
Are you re-hydrating to manufacturer's specifications?
What's the viability of your yeast you're using?

 

[sim]

not sure I follow that logic?, why top crop back to the 30L?

Just had a thought.. along the lines of using yeast cake.... what about brewing a 23L batch in the 60L fermenter then rack this to secondary (and later into a corny) and dump 3 x 20L batches on the yeast cake from the 23L batch?

logic is pitching rates and using fresh young yeast rather than decrepid seen better days yeast. using say half of the yeast produced from the 30L batch in the 60L batch. Then harvesting a small amount and starting again in a small batch.

I wouldnt brew the single in the 60L then dump on top. not just because you'd be most likely overpitching (you could tip some out), but the liquid level in the second batch will come up above the scum line of the first and you'd get all that through your beer (probably no biggy).

The idea of toggling between fermentors also allows you to be selective about what kind of slurry gunk youre reusing.

 

[the_new_darren]

What's your reasoning for using this amount of yeast?
How many yeast cells are you pitching to your wort?
Are you re-hydrating to manufacturer's specifications?
What's the viability of your yeast you're using?

Been there done that


Nowdays its just a pack of yeast straight into thr fermenter, give it a shake wait 12 hrs and another shake.

But then what would I know, Im just a microbiologist B)

Another VERY good reason to do it in the one fermenter is........ OP will only need to clean one fermenter afterwards

tnd

 

[kymba]

could you put the first 2 batches into normal sized cubes, 1/2 a batch into a 10L cube and use the final 10L as the 'starter' in the 60L FV. when the starter has started just pour the rest in?

 

[argon]

Been there done that


Nowdays its just a pack of yeast straight into thr fermenter, give it a shake wait 12 hrs and another shake.

But then what would I know, Im just a microbiologist B)

Another VERY good reason to do it in the one fermenter is........ OP will only need to clean one fermenter afterwards

tnd

What's your reasoning for using this amount of yeast?
How many yeast cells are you pitching to your wort?
Are you re-hydrating to manufacturer's specifications?
What's the viability of your yeast you're using?

 

[the_new_darren]

What's your reasoning for using this amount of yeast?
How many yeast cells are you pitching to your wort?
Are you re-hydrating to manufacturer's specifications?
What's the viability of your yeast you're using?

Reasoning; Done it hundreds of times.

How many: Either an active 2 litre slurry or 1 packet of dry yeast

REhydrating: Have done it before, cant be botherered boiling and cooling water to do it these days

Its a long time since i have dome a yeast viability count. Did them 10 years ago but realised ona HB scale it was worth a pinch of shite.

How are you calculating your yeast requirements? Blindly following "recommendations" from those who would benefit from additional packets of yeast or DME for large starters?

tnd

 

[sim]

Nowdays its just a pack of yeast straight into thr fermenter, give it a shake wait 12 hrs and another shake.

But then what would I know, Im just a microbiologist B)
tnd

wow, awesome! that means that expensive "yeast" book written by that microbiologist, i can just throw it out the window.

 

[the_new_darren]

wow, awesome! that means that expensive "yeast" book written by that microbiologist, i can just throw it out the window.

Apart from interesting reading, as a homebrewer I would say YES

tnd

 

[Thirsty Boy]

leaving aside Darren's opinions about pitching rates (which i disagree with...but you get that in homebrewing) there are strategies that the OP hasn't explored that both solve his batch size problem and can minimise the starter size.

60L and only 2 NC cubes.

solution #1 - get another NC cube, no more problem....
solution #2 - fill 2 cubes. On the morning you want to brew your 3rd 20L batch, put 2cubes and your yeast into the fermenter, aerate etc as you normally would... brew, fill one of the now spare cubes with wort. Next day when its cool enough - add the newer cube (giving it a good shake to get some oxygen into it)

Pitching in seperate increments is not unusual in commercial breweries and is actually used as a way to add oxygen incrementally and help with yeast performance, in a similar manner to the english practise of double dropping. Have a google of the german term "drauflassen" and you'll see that variations of it are widely practised - mainly for reasons of batch capability just like yours, but also for yeast. I wouldn't say its something that would halve your required starter size.... but it might come close i think. If you initially wanted say a 2L starter per batch (so 6L in 60L) i would think that 4L worth for the original 40L would end up being more than sufficient for the whole volume.

But mainly - its just about a way to manage your ability to do the batches, and to know that juggling a bit is not "wrong" - probably no matter how you go about it.

 

[Dazza88]

Some pour their no chill cube from a height into the fermenter to introduce oxygen, I would imagine that doing this with the third cube added incrementally after fermentating started would be a bad thing.? TB?

A consideration if you didn't have a tap on your NC cube.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Some pour their no chill cube from a height into the fermenter to introduce oxygen, I would imagine that doing this with the third cube added incrementally after fermentating started would be a bad thing.? TB?

A consideration if you didn't have a tap on your NC cube.

Nope pour it in from a height - splash it about. You aren't waiting till halfway through your ferment, its more or less within 24hrs. Your yeast is going to be well and truly still in its inititial growth phase, if its not still in lag. Oxygen at this point is good for it. Thats exactly why it helps reduce your required starter size, because you are giving it a burst of oxygen and trace nutrients right at the point where the yeast needs it - and it will increase peak cell count and the vitality of the increased number of cells.

I wouldn't particularly stress about a bit of oxygen at any time right up until the krausen starts to diminish.... but any time up until your fermentation really starts to take off properly, I would say that its actually a positive rather than a negative of any description.

 

[MaltyHops]

Pitching in seperate increments is not unusual in commercial breweries and is actually
used as a way to add oxygen incrementally and help with yeast performance ....... that
juggling a bit is not "wrong" - probably no matter how you go about it.

Glad you posted this as I've been pondering something like this - in my case, am
building a system that will make around 15L-17L wort at a time so when needing to
make a 23L-25L batch, thought it should be possible to brew half, start fermenting
that, then brew other half and add to the first half soon after.

T.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

no worries at all - dont wait days or anything between brews. but brew today and agin tomorrow and that'd be fine.

mind you - you'll note that i said the number one soulion was to just get enough no-chill cubes.... then yiu canbrew whenever you like and ferment at your utter leisure, mixing or not mixing the cubes together in whichever way you wish.