Changing The Method Of Sanitizing My Bottles

[Darren]

Chlorine Bleach is a much more effective antimicrobial chemical at an acidic pH value than at the alkaline Ph value at which bleach is manufactured and stored. A small amount of household vinegar is sufficient to lower the pH of bleach to an acidic range. Diluted bleach at an alkaline pH is a relatively poor disinfectant, but acidified diluted bleach will virtually kill anything. (HOCl is about 80 to 200 times more antimicrobial than OCl-)

It also lets you bring down the chlorine levels to where you can not taste nor smell it and still kill and sanitise, hence no-rinse.

Hot water will neutralise chlorine. Hence I still do a hot water rinse even though I shouldn't. Old habits are hard to get rid of.

Biggest bottle of no name generic white vinegar cheap from your local supermarket is all you need. Keep the malty stuff for your fish and chips!

FFS, If you are still doing a HW rinse then why are you adding VINEGAR?

Vinegar is 99% organic material (a very small proportion of that is acetic acid). By adding organic material to your bleach solution you are effectively reducing you sanitising ability of your bleach (bleach "fires" its free electron at organic material). What you gain from acidification you lose in effectiveness at these low dilution rates.

I maintain there will be significant levels of acetobacter in ALL vinegar products.

cheers

Darren

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

FFS, If you are still doing a HW rinse then why are you adding VINEGAR?

Vinegar is 99% organic material (a very small proportion of that is acetic acid). By adding organic material to your bleach solution you are effectively reducing you sanitising ability of your bleach (bleach "fires" its free electron at organic material). What you gain from acidification you lose in effectiveness at these low dilution rates.

I maintain there will be significant levels of acetobacter in ALL vinegar products.

cheers

Darren

You dont need to rinse the bleach/vinegar solution as the chlorine rapidly evaporates.

Darren, you are an idiot...think about what happens when you add Vinegar to bleach and your suggestion that vinegar has acto still active in it...there is a lot more bleach in the given solution than vinegar

 

[growold]

New to this forum,
And my first post is a question, of course.

Why dont you want to use sodium metabisulphite anymore?

 

[Screwtop]

Why add the vinegar?? Anyone actually tested the advantages of vinegar additions over beach without vinegar??

As a data point, vinegar is made from acetobacter, the very last thing you want in your beer

cheers

Darren

Darren, most commercial vinegars have been pasteurised. Some cider vinegars available from health food shops or organic stores have a live "madre".

 

[ianh]

Hi

Don't use anything to sanitise the bottles just a good wash and rinse ( X2) after use and then store them inverted till next use, no problems so far, over 800 bottles

Use the Bleach plus Vinegar to sanitise my fermenter, again no problems. Use 40 ml of bleach and vinegar per 23 litres. The vinegar is required to release the chlorine from the bleach to do the sanitising and at this concentration no rinse is necessary.

Sodium Metabisulphite is a throwback from the old days and has little place in current day sanitising.

just my 2c worth

cheers

Ian

 

[haysie]

Yeah, I did the vinegar thing up til a year or two ago, I then realised its best used for fish n chups, just like olive oil has better uses with tomatoes and priousutto than yeast starters but hey, its all about looking the greatest and pissing from great heights.

My regime slacked off, filthy fermenter gets 1 teaspoon napisan 1 ltr water, a shake a roll and 24 hours, tip , check for any remaining krausens wipe over with sponge,,, satisfies me the shit is gone not the bugs, then goes in 120ml bleach 3 ltrs water shake rattle roll 24 hours tip, rinse with tap, rinse with tap. Store upside down on the bench ready for brew day, Brew day,, rinse with tap water, finish sparging sit my fermenter on top of HLT with tap open for approx 5-10 min, the steam would kill anything that i missed.
A simple routine, bug free beer everytime, little waste on the environment. Pisses me no end people using reservoir water soaking their fermenters.

Bottle sanitary = rinse , once collected a dozen foil on top cook at 200 75min, being sure too add your bottles at turn on temp NOT 200 deg. No chemicals, no water (minimal). Cool in oven, remove next morning, ready to use now or next year.

 

[thomfam]

Thanks for all the answers.

Seems there are heaps of ways to effectively sanitize bottles.

If I read it all correctly bleach is a very economical way to effectively sanitize bottles. However it may not be the quickest way to do this job.

The higher the concentrate you use, the greater the need to effectively rinse the bottles. If not rinsed effectively, the final product may be spoiled by the leftover bleach

The higher the concentrate, the less time the bottles need to be soaked or rinsed with the solution.

Someone above asked why no longer using metabisulphite, it seems it is an 'inhibitor' rather than a sanitizer. (And it isn't cheap to buy).

Today I did my first bottle washing using bleach. I mixed 8 litres of water and about 36ml of bleach in a watering can. I filled each bottle to be sanitized with the mix (I had to make three lots to do all my bottles). I then let them 'soak' for 20-30 minutes. After emptying them I then rinsed them in warm/hot water. Because I used warm water, they will dry more quickly.

Tomorrow I will bottle!

Thanks everyone.

 

[Bribie G]

New to this forum,
And my first post is a question, of course.

Why don't you want to use sodium metabisulphite anymore?

When I brewed 20 years ago in my previous life, sodium met was the default sanitiser, however as you have noticed it's not widely used nowadays. I see it's still at Woolies in the home brew section. I think one reason it's fallen out of favour is that it's fairly toxic, it has been known to kill asthmatics on the spot (at a shopping centre in QLD a few years ago some young guys at a butchery left some sodium met in a coke can to play a trick on a derro who would go around drinking half cans left on tables and he died instantly).

Question while the thread's live:

I have just taken delivery of my first bottle of starsan and mixed it up as directed. I notice that it's foamy and bubbly, and after rinsing a bottle or a fermenter it's full of fairly loose foam. It's supposed to be no rinse so do I just let the foam subside and ignore it?

 

[warra48]

When I brewed 20 years ago in my previous life, sodium met was the default sanitiser, however as you have noticed it's not widely used nowadays. I see it's still at Woolies in the home brew section. I think one reason it's fallen out of favour is that it's fairly toxic, it has been known to kill asthmatics on the spot (at a shopping centre in QLD a few years ago some young guys at a butchery left some sodium met in a coke can to play a trick on a derro who would go around drinking half cans left on tables and he died instantly).

Question while the thread's live:

I have just taken delivery of my first bottle of starsan and mixed it up as directed. I notice that it's foamy and bubbly, and after rinsing a bottle or a fermenter it's full of fairly loose foam. It's supposed to be no rinse so do I just let the foam subside and ignore it?

Bribie, yeah, just drain, and ignore the residual foam. No need to rinse. It won't effect your brew at all.

I tend to use Iodophor as my primary sanitiser. Only 1 mil per litre, so it's very economical. From time to time, I change that to Hydrogen Peroxide, just to keep the bugs on the hop.

I had some issues with infections in some of my bottled batches early last year, but I tracked down the source of that to my little bottler, and have not had a problem since.

 

[thunderchild]

As Ross says,

Don't fear the foam. Apparently at wort Ph levels the foam is a yeast nutrient.