Carbonating Kegs For Temprite

[3G]

No, just hook back up at pouring presure and drink.

 

[robbo5253]

Its carbing at 90kpa at the moment but when being poured will be at 120 as will be using a miracle box.

Does that mean i should have it at 120 at the moment or is the 90 ok?

Cheers

Robbo

 

[muckey]

No, leave it at 95 in the fridge.

keg pressure depends on the temperature that the keg will be at during serving.

if you up it to 120 in the fridge it will be overcarbed at ambient when it warms up and will probably have pouring issues

If the keg is going to be at ambient while connected to the miracle box you may need to adjust the pressure over the night as the keg warms up.
If the venue is far from home - ie you'll be transporting the keg then it'll warm up so you might want to vent it prior to ensure its not over carbed.

Unfortunately moving kegs between different invironments takes some forward planning so you may need another keg for a planning session

 

[Klemmstein]

Hi,

I'm sorry, but I don't mean to thread hijack... however, my query is along the same lines, so the answer may in turn help robbo5253, as well.

I'm looking at the same scenario, however, I will be using 3 18ltr corney's.

The kegs will most probably be force carbed and then taken to a Xmas doo some distance away. They would have reached room temp by then. Hopefully, not too much higher.

Are you saying that I should burp the kegs before hooking up to my Miracle Box?

Again, apologies to robbo5253.

Cheers,

K

 

[muckey]

if you force carbed them when they are are fridge temp definately yes.
the amount of CO2 in solution vs pressure changes with temperature, the warmer the beer is, the easier CO2 comes out of solution.

So if you force cab at 4 degrees to say 100kpa and then warm it up the keg pressure will rise considerabley.

(am at work and cant work out the numbers)

if you then hook it up to a lower pressure to serv the C)2 comes out of solution and Voila! glass full of head!

so as the keg comes up to temp you'll need to ensure the excess co2 is removed

 

[Klemmstein]

so as the keg comes up to temp you'll need to ensure the excess Co2 is removed

Thanks for that, that little bit of advice is very much appreciated. :icon_cheers:

It may just stop me from being embarrassed and be able to enjoy some cold homebevvies at Xssy time. :icon_drool2:

Cheers,

K

 

[muckey]

no prob

 

[buttersd70]

At the end of the day, undercarbed is better than overcarbed. Undercarbed is drinkable, and can be fixed pretty quickly (if you could even be bothered) with a bit of higher pressure and a slight shake. Overcarbed beer takes time to fix, gradually venting it down......so undercarbed is the lesser of 2 evils, imho.

 

[robbo5253]

Yeah , that makes it clearer... one more question...
I will have mine carbed by the weekend and then taking it out of the fridge, so I can put my Cornies back in...

My question is, what sort of pressure do I take the keg back to before I take it out of the fridge to let it sit? from now till xmas...

Cheers

Robbo

 

[muckey]

unfortunately I'm at work and havent got time to work it out

I'm surprised butters hasn,t already calculated it - he's the resident numbers man

 

[buttersd70]

unfortunately I'm at work and havent got time to work it out

I'm surprised butters hasn,t already calculated it - he's the resident numbers man

You know it's not that easy, you smart git....there are so many variables it's ridonculous.

robbo, when you take it out, give it time to warm up to ambient, then check the pressure...as the keg warms, the head pressure will rise, give it time to stabalise. The head pressure required to maintain co2 in suspension is related directly to the temperature of the beer, and also what level of carb you are after...assuming that your fridge which is poured at 95kPa is at 5C, then your looking at 2.5 vol.....for storage, at 20-25C (ish), your looking at somewhere in the region of 180kPa (which is where a certain smart alec has his regulator set on his temprite setup, and is the pressure he leaves his kegs for storage....he could have just said that. ). So I would say adjust pressure to 180 (unless, of course, it will be stored cooler.), but as I said, let it stabalise at ambient before adjusting.

Then, when you connect to the miracle box for serving, vent it down to 120, and off you go....if you can maintain 15C keg temp when serving, all the better....that way, it will be easier for the top pressure to maintain the carbonation level. If not, no biggie, as long as the keg temp is not ridiculously high. If the keg is a little under carbed, you can then adjust the pressure on it and do a higher pressure pour, which will force head into it.

 

[robbo5253]

Cheers Butters, love the work on the numbers.

Will take out on the weekend and let settle to temp. then reset pressure, and check every few weeks.

Will reduce pressure down before taking it in the car, will then empty a fridge out at the shack and chill down with correct pressure for a few days then should be good to go!

Cheers for all your help

Robbo

 

[buttersd70]

Cheers Butters, love the work on the numbers.

Will take out on the weekend and let settle to temp. then reset pressure, and check every few weeks.

Will reduce pressure down before taking it in the car, will then empty a fridge out at the shack and chill down with correct pressure for a few days then should be good to go!

Cheers for all your help

Robbo

Sorry, Robbo, do you have a fridge to actually have the keg in at the other end? because if this is the case, it changes things a little......vent to 120 before transport, then fridge it at 120 @ 10C if the fridge will go that warm. If the fridge is colder, vent it down to 90-100kPa as it cools down to 5-6C. Then just adjust up to pouring pressure when it's time to serve it.

 

[robbo5253]

Butters, am hoping to have fridge space but at that time of year no garuntee...

If not would I be best to vent it to 120 before travelling and then chill in a bucket of ice before serving it?

Cheers

Robbo

 

[buttersd70]

Butters, am hoping to have fridge space but at that time of year no garuntee...

If not would I be best to vent it to 120 before travelling and then chill in a bucket of ice before serving it?

Cheers

Robbo

You could..... The main issue is that temprites/miracle boxes are designed to be used in conjunction with kegs that are fairly cool (not cold). If it comes to it, after transport, put back up to 180 until the day itself, then vent down again, and go from there...but the cooler the keg is, the slower the breakout of co2 from solution will be once the pressure is dropped for serving.

 

[muckey]

You know it's not that easy, you smart git....there are so many variables it's ridonculous.

happy soul you are today - end up with a hang over after yesterday did ya

Unfortunately work was getting in the way and I didnt really have time to cover temp vs serving temp vs line length vs ambient on the day vs desired volumes of CO2 required in the beer and I knew you had done the maths previously - I just had to setup the bait.

Glad you got robbo sorted, thanks

 

[robbo5253]

Another Quick one boys that may help resolve the Issue.

What pressure are commercial kegs gassed at? as these seem to work in all situations...

 

[muckey]

to be honest I dont know what pressure commerciial kegs are set at.

I know butters and I discussed this and we beleive that in hotel situations they are probably run at higher pressures because of line length. A lot are in cold rooms that are some distance from the bar. In commercial situations the keg system is normally balanced when its installed and is checked from time to time as well.

I know that there are people who visit this forum who will be able to give you much more info re- commercial setups though.

Gotta admit, every time I think I've got my setup sorted, it throws me a wobbly just to keep me on my toes :lol:

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

The warmer the keg, the higher the pressure needs to be to maintain carbonation. Which means higher pressure in the lines, which means longer or more resistant lines to reduce the pressure to the tap.

As a point of interest from some one who regulary uses a magic / miracle box compared to a temprite. They both do basically the same thing. Beer goes in warm comes out cold. I gas my kegs to suit my home bar, take them out of the fridge and then let them go warm. I still pour at the same pressure.

BYB

 

[robbo5253]

Muckey,

The pressure I was meaning is when they leave the brewery to go to the pubs, as once they get to the pub, they may be conneceted straight away in cellar or coolroom or they may sit out the back of a small pub in the sun.

Maybe some of the guys from the micros would have an idea?

Thanks for that BYB, puts my mind at ease to know someone else is doing it and it works!

Cheers

Robbo

P.S. I am listening to my Boston Cream bubble away... so good!!