BWS's Idea Of Beer Categories

[manticle]

Also don't need to be hopped up palate wreckers as you put it bum. There's many, many styles in existence pre us hop craze (which I know you know).
Myself, I think I'd quite like a trois monts served with a caramelised poached pear and anglaise.

 

[sp0rk]

I Don't know about other places, but here in Coffs one of our main fine eating districts is the Jetty strip (Harbour Drive)
Right at the end of this strip of restaurants is a bottle shop that stocks a great range of craft beers, imported euro ales and lagers and the bloke behind the counter says he was involved with CAMRA in the UK before he relocated here and seems to know quite a lot about beer
There is no reason for any of the restaurants not to take the 3 minute walk down to this bottleshop to grab a few cartons of something that is suited to the sort of hipster/snobby rich/interested customers that line the strip
Do any of them stock anything other than xxxx, vb, peroni or heini?
No, but they sure do seem to stock a lot of wines that are billed over $30 in most cases, I'm sure they could easily be selling bottles of Murrays Whale Ale or the like for $9 a bottle

 

[bum]

Also don't need to be hopped up palate wreckers as you put it bum. There's many, many styles in existence pre us hop craze (which I know you know).

But honestly, you could insert pretty much any style but "bland lager" into my rhetoric and it would be the same - I assumed that would be fairly understandable but I guess I was not clear. You could say stout, porter, any pale over, say 25IBU, anything very malt-forward and you're going to have a beer that will compliment specific dishes only.

Myself, I think I'd quite like a trois monts served with a caramelised poached pear and anglaise.

Again, a very specific pairing and isn't at all what is under discussion here - an ala carte menu. It is just bad business to offer low demand, delicate products.

 

[manticle]

But some high end restaurants are trying it because they are trying to recognise/create a market rather than pander to an existing one.

 

[bum]

Sure. A niche exists and it should be serviced. I'm just not sure we should expect the same of the local Thai place (which is not horribly inauthentic so I thank my lucky stars) or whatever.

 

[manticle]

My expectations are low. Doesn't mean my hopes should be too.

 

[Truman42]

The missus and I have walked into a restaurant before, been seated at our table, then looked at the drinks list. No decent beers, so got up and walked out.

Now we ask before were even seated what beers they have. It amazes me how many restaurants dont even serve stout. At one place we went to none of the bar staff even knew what stout was. I asked "Do you have any stout?" and the reply was .."umm... not sure (Asks other bar chick who says)......no but we have all these red wines here.." :unsure:

 

[Dave70]

The missus and I have walked into a restaurant before, been seated at our table, then looked at the drinks list. No decent beers, so got up and walked out.

For chrissakes , you cant be serious.

Do you honestly expect a restaurant to keep a fresh stocks of boutique beer on hand on the off chance some punter may wander in the door once in a blue moon an order a bottle with dinner?

If the food is good, I don't mind pairing it with a nice cold glass of New if need be.

 

[DU99]

try this menu they suggest what beer to have with what food.and there having 5 beer and 5 food degustation in may

 

[NewtownClown]

My expectations are low. Doesn't mean my hopes should be too.

keeping expectations low means never being disappointed

 

[Mirkin]

Beer is coming along like Wine did 30-40 years ago the battle of snobs drinking bottles and the masses glugging goon bag casks. Fighting a lot of misconceptions and crap along the way.

Australia is far behind many places when it comes to beer. However thanks to great craft brewers, festivals (like Bitter & Twisted in Maitland for example) and an ever expanding number of home brewers who are producing their own quality beers, the public profile of Craft Beer is slowing growing it's own identity that is not associated with megaswill.

Truman has the right idea, and if it happens enough, if DEMAND is shown restaurants will begin to capitulate, but it will require a lot of people expanding their horizons. Change is uncomfortable for many people and businesses.

If you go somewhere for a meal and ask for a beer, say that you are after a craft beer - (even if it as mainstream as a James Squire). Living in the Hunter / Newcastle region I now often ask directly for a Murray's beer like Whale Ale or something before asking/looking at their list. Increase the profile of your local craft breweries with word of mouth, make their names known and that they're only 30km's down the road. Accessibility can make a huge difference.

Food / Drink matching is as much about practice and preferences as anything else. Wine was appallingly married to food until the general education was increased, it just took time and interest.

get out and spread the good word!

 

[verysupple]

when they're out or they want the beer they usually drink

I disagree. Restaurants have a wide range of (what they think is good) wine because people want something nice and a bit special when they go out. That's also why they have the Crownies and imported lagers - not becuase it's what people usually drink but because they think those beers are a bit more fancy.

 

[verysupple]

Also you're more likely to get a wine that will traverse from pork belly entree to steak main

On the argument about a wine matching a wider range of dishes, isn't that a great reason to only have a handful of wines in the list. I mean if one wine is so versatile why have so many?

But serisously, if I'm at home and only want to open one bottle of wine I might compromise and open something that goes OK with both becuase I'm not THAT fussy. But if I was at a restaurant and the waiter recommended something because it would go with both the pork belly and a steak I'd ignore them for the rest of the night because they were talking sh*t. That is why they have so many to chose from.

 

[bum]

But that is exactly my point - this isn't about matching one beverage with one dish. This is about having a sensible ala carte menu that reflects demand and is sustainable and economically viable. Much, much easier with wine.

I cannot fathom how so many of you are having trouble with this. Beer is more fragile (even if only due to ignorance of how to treat it), often more so with craft beer. Beer is something people are less willing to pay a premium on. The broader variety of flavours and mouthfeel available with the full spectrum of beer make it significantly harder to find ones that will not create noise for many of the dishes. Beers you hardly notice when you are drinking them fit the bill nicely and it just so happens that beers like that line up with demand.

I disagree. Restaurants have a wide range of (what they think is good) wine because people want something nice and a bit special when they go out. That's also why they have the Crownies and imported lagers - not becuase it's what people usually drink but because they think those beers are a bit more fancy.

So you cut out the bit I already said about Crownies so you could tell me the bit I already said about Crownies like it is news?

Awesome internetting. Just terrific.

 

[Bribie G]

Ahhhh goon bags

 

[Spiesy]

And you're also probably in the wrong country. Let's face it - the average person thinks those beers are the fancy option and those restaurants are trying - shitty though those options may be.

Regardless, if I ran a kitchen I wouldn't want to be serving palate-wrecking, hoppy beers and the like anyway.

I think you've missed my point... subbing any one, just one, of those beers - for something a little different, and probably a little more expensive, gives more options to more people and may even make some more money for the restaurant.

 

[bum]

Sure, it may. But people in business tend to like money - if it was likely it would be fairly common practice.

Having said that, I don't think we're all that far away from a one-craft-beer-per-menu situation becoming a reality. I've seen White Rabbit dark ale on a few menus at not very fancy places about town (which is why I used it as an example in a previous post). See LC Rogers every so often too and (even though I don't think it is all that great) I think beers like this one are what would become the defacto craft option rather than the WR.

 

[Spiesy]

OT, but I really rate Rogers... it's almost a mid-strength, is exactly 1 standard drink a bottle and has some flavour.
Perfect for when I want to have a few and then drive, or feel like smashing a few back, but not get pissed.

"But people in business tend to like money - if it was likely it would be fairly common practice" - I don't understand the second part here.

If you're saying if it was likely to make more money, it would be common practice... hmmm... not exactly. Times changes, people change, demand changes. Subbing 1-2 of those beers is not taking sales away from your business, as the clientele interested in the international lager still has other international lager to chose from - but you may attract a new market and new clientele with a couple of different offerings.

Case in point, my wife took me out to a nice cocktail bar the other week for some pre-dinner drinks. I felt like a beer. There were 2 x fridges full of the usual suspects from the Foster's stable (which didn't even include Matilda Bay, from memory) - but nothing to my liking... not even the pseudo-mainstream craft beers from LC's. Lots and lots of spirits, cocktails and wine to choose from, but a terrible beer selection of LAGER. We left without having a drink.

Now I know I am NOT the majority, but I am part of a growing minority - and it would not have hurt their sales one bit to have dropped a couple of generic, "premium", international lagers for something with a slightly different appeal.

 

[petesbrew]

The missus and I have walked into a restaurant before, been seated at our table, then looked at the drinks list. No decent beers, so got up and walked out.

Now we ask before were even seated what beers they have. It amazes me how many restaurants dont even serve stout. At one place we went to none of the bar staff even knew what stout was. I asked "Do you have any stout?" and the reply was .."umm... not sure (Asks other bar chick who says)......no but we have all these red wines here.." :unsure:

Fair enough if you want a GOOD beer with your meal, but it's posts like this that make me glad I like wine as much as beer.

Went to one dodgy family steakhouse not long ago. Looked at the drinks list. Just the usual suspects. I asked if they have anything dark and the chick replied "nah we dont have any OLD beer".
sigh. "okay, um ,just...a glass of the house red thanks"

Had a camel burger from the $10 lunch specials list. Glad I ordered it. Wish I didn't eat it. It was totally farked.

 

[bum]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, of course - I myself almost never by a beer at a restaurant due to limited range. But I'm not talking about what I think is good or "Right", just looking at the situation from a non-beer-enthusiast's eyes.

Say you own a restaurant. Say there's no expressed demand for a product - do you spend extra on replacing a known entity with an unknown hoping to change the mind of an ignorant audience and risk having it impact negatively on your main product?