Burners And Boiling

[rich_lamb]

Hi all,
a couple of questions about the finer points of gas-fired kettles:

1) Anybody else use those cast iron 3-ring burners you see all over camping stores? Can you get enough heat out of them? Do you need a medium or high pressure reg to make them work?


2) The "rolling" boil. I normally use a turkey fryer as my kettle and the burner throws out plenty of heat - but I sometimes have problems with the boil FROTHING, ie. lots of fine bubbling on the boil that likes to boil over. Note that this can happen at any stage of the boil, not just at the start or when hops are added. I seem to have been able to reduce this by tweaking the heat down a bit. Anybody else have this issue?

 

[lokpikn]

There are a huge amount of people here who use the cast iron burners i have been using a for ring for 2 years now. I also dump in my hand hels element to get it up to boil quick and then just use the burners. ]

I think the frothing you refer to is hot break which normally happens just one when you reach boil point and also sometimes when you throw in hops but i have no idea to why it would happen in your setup and any time through the boil.

Im sure some one will be able to give a more detaled explanation to these problems but as far as i know a firece boil in much better than a slow one. But yuo will end up with a lot more evaperation at the end.


Edit: Spelling errrors

 

[Doogiechap]

The subject of burners was discussed here fairly recently and has some great info. As far as foaming is concerned you can buy Antifoam (at least my local HBS stocks it) which contains hop extract and does help with the reduction of excessive foaming and has reduced my boilovers significantly as I typically have an inital boil volume of 45l in a 50l pot h34r: .
Cheers
Doug

 

[tim_mortensen]

A 3 ring burner is fine (depending on you boil size). I have a 50L pot (stockpot style), with about 35L in it pre-boil. I found that the low-pressure reg would get it to boil, though would take a while. The boil was ok, but not what you would call vigorous. It may be different if you use a keg for a boiler, less liquid surface area

I upgraded to a medium pressure regulator, and this made a huge difference, fast boil and very vigourous boiling. You just need to be a bit more careful lighting it... :blink:

I wouldn't get a high pressure reg, doubt you would be able to light it, the gas pressure would be so high!

Tim

 

[Fents]

could not live without my med pressure reg on my 4 ring, i love it.

 

[bierbaron]

could not live without my med pressure reg on my 4 ring, i love it.

fents, do you use the 4 burner that g&g stock? i am currently looking at buying one of those and i would like to know how it performs, low or medium pressure regs etc.

 

[rich_lamb]

Thanks Doogiechap, that thread was most illuminating! (pun intended).

I've generally been using what you guys call a NASA burner (with a medium reg) that came with my Turkey Fryer, and it's probably too strong for my 22L kettle but from what I've seen it will work fine on my new 50L kettle.

I was just thinking I needed a new burner, but seems like I already have the right thing . Though if I keep my small kettle as a HLT I could probably get a 3-ring for that. Might be perfect.

I'm kindof hoping the whole boilover thing will go away in a bigger kettle - it seems very few others have this issue and I expect most are using bigger kettles than me. Size does matter after all

cheers

 

[JasonY]

B&T I have a 20gal pot and I can boil that sucker over with a NASA. Usually the start of the boil is a lot less stable (foaming) but you can cut back the gas a lot to those burners to where the boil is not so vigorous. Also a spray bottle with water will knock that down quite well, once you are past the first few minutes of the boil it is usually very forgiving.

I used to have a 4 ring but I find the NASA to be much better, I have used it with a 10Gal pot with no problems also. Stick with the NASA.

 

[simonab]

Hi B&T

I use a cast iron 4 ring burner for a 55L boil - works fine.

If you're infusion mashing (not decoction) you need a 30 min strong rolling boil BEFORE you add any hops. This is to ensure your beer will clarify properly.

So simply adjust the burner as high as possible without it boiling over.

Cheers
Simon

 

[Fents]

fents, do you use the 4 burner that g&g stock? i am currently looking at buying one of those and i would like to know how it performs, low or medium pressure regs etc.

yep sure do mate, 4 burner all the way.. although before looking at GnG i'd go looking at Rays camping stores esp when they have a sale on.

edit - cause pat said so - Performance - performs great with a med pressure reg mate i do 35 litre batch's (45 litres pre boil) and it gets it to the boil in no time.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I am using a 4 ring burner with an adjustable gas reg on a 80 L kettle.The bugger just about jumps out of the kettle just on the outside ring alone, thats at a 50L brew.It would do 70 L easy.I am planing on trying it out on my soon to be 150 L kettle. :unsure: I like the 4 ring as I think it spreeds the heat over a wider area of the kettle.
GB

 

[Rudy]

Hi Guys,

Would any of these burners work on natural gas, or will the pressure be too low? I'm using a 3 ring cast burner with 9kg bottle for single batches, but would love to lose the bottle and run from mains.

 

[Duff]

Rudy,

Check out this link where T.D did a conversion with a 3 ring.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Hi Guys,

Would any of these burners work on natural gas, or will the pressure be too low? I'm using a 3 ring cast burner with 9kg bottle for single batches, but would love to lose the bottle and run from mains.

I have NG under the back verandah and went doen this path with a converted Italian burner,
Did a test run on 40L of water it took 3.15 hours to get to the boil and couldn't hold a boil with the lid off!

The same burner on LPG is an absolute beast with a med pressure regulator leaving my Nasa / Turkey burner for dead.....its scary.

With NG though, the gas pressure is far to low and in the slightest of breeze kept blowing out.
The jets were drilled out to the maximum setting and I could only think that the only improvemunt would be a much bigger pipe from the meter directly to the burner to increase the flow rate, but its alot of work and money for an educated guesss.

Cheers
BB

 

[afromaiko]

I use a 4 ring burner on a standard regulator and it works well. When boiling you can turn off one or even two rings and it will still keep rolling away nicely. I am still thinking about whether to get a medium pressure regulator to get up to the boil quicker, but even without doesn't seem to take very long. I bought mine off a member here, but if you are in Melbourne this place has pretty reasonable prices:

Lee's Warehouse in Highett

 

[domonsura]

Hi B&T

I use a cast iron 4 ring burner for a 55L boil - works fine.

If you're infusion mashing (not decoction) you need a 30 min strong rolling boil BEFORE you add any hops. This is to ensure your beer will clarify properly.

So simply adjust the burner as high as possible without it boiling over.

Cheers
Simon

I disagree. You don;t need to make the boil climb out of your kettle, that will just increase the risk of boilover, caramelisation, and greatly increase your evaporative loss. You need a rolling boil for good hop utilisation, but you do not need to boil the hell out of it. And 30 minutes before you add any hops? I don't think so. 30 minutes of wasted gas. When I get to the boil, I add hops immediately after the hot break has happened, which is usually within a few minutes of coming to the boil. Then hop away to your hearts content.

 

[mika]

Hmmm...corn...tasty

 

[tim_mortensen]

I disagree. You don;t need to make the boil climb out of your kettle, that will just increase the risk of boilover, caramelisation, and greatly increase your evaporative loss. You need a rolling boil for good hop utilisation, but you do not need to boil the hell out of it. And 30 minutes before you add any hops? I don't think so. 30 minutes of wasted gas. When I get to the boil, I add hops immediately after the hot break has happened, which is usually within a few minutes of coming to the boil. Then hop away to your hearts content.

Although a 30 minute boil before you add hops is beneficial if you have a lot of Pilsener malt to reduce DMS. As you say it doesn't need to be a good rolling boil until you add the hops.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[FE2EK]

Hi Guys, Some of you guys seem to be doing some scarey stuff with Lp gas. Where possible try to use natural gas, it is much safer and when burners are converted correctly you shouldnt see any difference in performance.

Some useful hints:

When using burners in a garage make sure they are at least 18 inches off the ground. Petrol is heavier than air so if your mower etc had a petrol leak, potential for explosion.

Make sure any burners, regulators, hoses and valves used are AGA(Aust Gas Ass') approved, as if they are not, performance may not be suitable for the designed application resulting in unsafe performance.

If you have to use LP gas, make sure it is not car/automotive gas as there is a huge difference.

Lp burners dont work on Natural gas and definately dont use a Natural gas burner on LP Gas. They can each be converted to suit the required gas type.

Try to buy burners with a flame failure safety device, these are much safer, in the event of boil overs or breezes which could extinguish the flame.

Cheers

Geoff the newbie, but also licensed Gasfitter.