Bulk Conditioning in Kegs

[peterlonz]

OK probably we are all affected by O2 to some extent, & we mostly don't have the means to determine the extent of the oxidation.
Some minimisation methods:
Keep head space in kegs low, & purge the space 3 or 4 time to reduce amount of O2.
Keg or bottle asap after fermentation has finished & yeast has "cleaned up". This means the O2 from fermentation will blanket the brew & offer some protection from oxidation.
For bottles - minimise head space or purge with CO2. This is tedious, but if you wish to compare the result of these actions with the usual methods it may be worth the effort.

 

[Garfield]

Two pretty horrendous takes here. Both incorrect.

Conditioning in a keg doesn't magically mean that the O2 that can introduced during the transfer/racking process disappears and doesn't affect the beer. So that's point 1 out the window.

I always question this often repeated mantra that yeast will consume all of the O2 that is introduced during the bottling process - I've never been able to find any research to back up the claim, nor any to suggest that the yeast even require that O2 at that point in order to complete the bottle priming process.
Making/repeating this claim also completely ignores the fact that even if the yeast did consume all of the O2 in the headspace, that O2 has already caused oxidation reactions within the beer while it has been in contact with the beer from the point of packaging until the time that the yeast supposedly consume it.



There is a big difference between a batch being completely ruined by oxidation vs oxidation making it a sub-par end product, and you've completely glossed over that.
My opinion is that any homebrewer who claims that they have never been affected by oxidation just simply doesn't know what it is, or is completely unable to recognise/detect how it is affecting their beer. Unless you have been going the absolute whole hog from the very start of your homebrewing adventures in terms of having a perfect process throughout your brewing, then you've definitely going to have had beers that were affected by oxidation. If you think that you didn't, then you either don't know what to look for, are being wilfully ignorant, or suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect

Perhaps you feel strongly about this subject

 

[goatchop41]

I feel strongly about misinformed people who spread misinformation/incorrect information

 

[MHB]

Sort of agree with goat... We cant eliminate O2 entirely, there are big breweries designed from the ground up to pickup as little oxygen as possible. I'm talking malt gassed with CO2 or N2, deaired mash water, full gas barrier in the mash tun and kettle. Quite a lot that isn't possible or even necessary in home brewing but the big brewers are after shelf stable product for as long as possible and invest lots in getting there.
Still measurable amounts of O2 get in and do measurable harm, plus the fun fact that there are a bunch of other faults that start showing up when you fix the first one.

To me its like dechlorinating your brewing water, I just run mine through a carbon filter, I know it isn't perfect and that some traces of Cl probably get through, but its a big step in the right direction.
If in doubt carbonate a keg with tap water and one that has been dechlorinated, gas them up and taste them side by side, you will really notice the difference.
Same with lowering the amount of O2 picked up in the brewing process, you can taste the difference, lower DO makes for better beer, I'm not going to get an N2 bottle and flush my grain, mill mash tun... but I will take as much care as I reasonably can.
The path to better beer is made of lots of small steps all going in the right direction.
Mark

 

[kadmium]

Sort of agree with goat... We cant eliminate O2 entirely, there are big breweries designed from the ground up to pickup as little oxygen as possible. I'm talking malt gassed with CO2 or N2, deaired mash water, full gas barrier in the mash tun and kettle. Quite a lot that isn't possible or even necessary in home brewing but the big brewers are after shelf stable product for as long as possible and invest lots in getting there.
Still measurable amounts of O2 get in and do measurable harm, plus the fun fact that there are a bunch of other faults that start showing up when you fix the first one.

To me its like dechlorinating your brewing water, I just run mine through a carbon filter, I know it isn't perfect and that some traces of Cl probably get through, but its a big step in the right direction.
If in doubt carbonate a keg with tap water and one that has been dechlorinated, gas them up and taste them side by side, you will really notice the difference.
Same with lowering the amount of O2 picked up in the brewing process, you can taste the difference, lower DO makes for better beer, I'm not going to get an N2 bottle and flush my grain, mill mash tun... but I will take as much care as I reasonably can.
The path to better beer is made of lots of small steps all going in the right direction.
Mark

I try to do both by adding 0.15g of KMETA to my brewing water, to help with Chloramine / Chlroine and also pick up some o2 hopefully. But agreed with your post, lots of small steps all add up.

 

[goatchop41]

I go for 300mg of sodium meta to both my brewing water, and then also in to the keg before I purge and fill it. I've had 3 month old NEIPAs that stayed as bright and hoppy as the day that they were kegged, and this was before I invested in an FV that was pressure rated so that I could do proper closed transfers