Brewing Pale Beers Sucessfully

[jayse]

snipped>
Hey Tony , I specifically asked what Ph this brewery I went to yesterday targeted and he said 8.5ph I remember asking him did he mean 5.8 ph but he distinctive ly said again 8.5ph .....

[post="124420"][/post]​

He must have been talking about the water not the mash there pumpy.

 

[Darren]

Ross, the polyclar I am using is polyclar VT. It drops very quick 24hr and it is all at the bottom. If i recall correctly it was recommened for non-filterers as it was large particle size.

cheers
Darren

 

[Darren]

will keep all posted with some pH readings and will also be adjusting to suit to hit the optimal 5.2 to 5.3 pH to see what happens.

cheers

[post="124173"][/post]​

Hey Tony , I specifically asked what Ph this brewery I went to yesterday targeted and he said 8.5ph I remember asking him did he mean 5.8 ph but he distinctive ly said again 8.5ph they did not do any real filtering other than through a hopsack and priort o the chiller heat exchanger to stop any big bits of grain or hops getting stuck in there .
Gee they were clear and he claimed no serious filtering

Otherwise Tony some yeasts dont flocculate well .

I am sold on filtering so I can turn the beer around quickly

Pumpy

[post="124420"][/post]​

Pumpy,
8.5? he is having you on!

cheers
Darren

 

[tangent]

Darren, how much melanoidin do you use for a batch? I would have thought i would darken the beer quite a bit?

 

[Darren]

Darren, how much melanoidin do you use for a batch? I would have thought i would darken the beer quite a bit?

[post="124446"][/post]​

Tangent,
Bugger all. It is strong stuff (malt wise) Maybe 500g in a 25 kg batch with a touch of this and a touch of that. Probably doesn't make any difference to the final product but makes me feel as I have added something other than pils malt.


cheers
Darren

 

[Pumpy]

[post="124420"][/post]​

[/quote]


Pumpy,
8.5? he is having you on!

cheers
Darren

[post="124430"][/post]​

[/quote]

Yep I reckon that too , they were using spring water and they owned the surrounding land which they rented to farmers with the condition that they do not use fertilisers which may affect the water table .

I suppose the guy taking the tour was not a brewer just a guide and seemed to give genuine answers to all the questions asked, However that did stand out to me

Pumpy

 

[Tony]

i had one of the pilsners tonight.

starts off hazy when cold and clears up when warmer. not completly clear but not bad.

Question.....

will hop oils in the beer from late/dry hopping cause chill haze type effects?

it has looooots of late hops.

I made a bitter a while back and dry hopped it with a handfull of northdown and it has the same haze problems.

mmmmmm curious !

 

[Trough Lolly]

Tony,
Are you using pellets, plugs or flowers???

TL

 

[Trough Lolly]

Polyphenols contribute to beer haze and we know that hops do contribute additional polyphenols to the wort. Fortunately, the boil assists in combining polyphenols to proteins (specifically the barley hordeins are denatured and through that restructure, they're more accessible to the malt and hop based polyphenols in the boiling wort - Source: probrewer thread) and through this interaction, much of the polyphenols precipitate out of the wort - the rest can be further clarified with polyclar or other clarifying compounds, or leaving to stand in the bottle/keg, as required.
There is a school of thought that late hop additions do contribute to beer haze as a result of the polyphenols present in the late hop additions themselves. I don't late hop my beers, especially pale beers - I prefer to first wort hop and generate the flavour and aroma profiles during the boil. I find the bittering to be smoother when I FWH; the analogy I use is the difference you get with an instant coffee that has boiling water poured on the coffee itself, compared to adding boiling water to a cup that has the coffee and milk in the cup before you add water.
It might be worth re-brewing the pale beer you made and not late hopping, or, late hopping and filtering out the polyphenols that you subsequently add? I'll see if I can find any data on whether certain hop varieties are more prone to throwing substantial polyphenols during late/dry hopping, than others...
Cheers,
TL

 

[Tony]

the beer in question was with a bucket load of saaz pellets.

I have done fwh'ing wit hpale german style lagers and i do agree with you on the benifits but i do recal they were hazy too.

cheers

 

[tangent]

i thought dry hopping with Saaz was a no-no? Makes it grassy?
What's it taste like Tony?

 

[Trough Lolly]

the beer in question was with a bucket load of saaz pellets.

[post="125262"][/post]​

Hmmm, IMHO, Saaz is a nasty one for late hopping, as Tangent suggests.

I have done fwh'ing wit hpale german style lagers and i do agree with you on the benifits but i do recal they were hazy too.

cheers

True - in fact the bulk of the polyphenols are actually sourced from grain husks and not the hops - which stands to reason when you are adding kilos of grains and husks compared to the milligrams of hops...There are many variables in the equation that need to be taken into account for every brew - mash regime, boil length, grain protein / FAN composition, the actual grain bill (eg, adding wheat for head retention etc), and hops. Additionally, the haze itself may have been created by either the protein or polyphenol precursors...it's a difficult issue to pinpoint with so many potential culprits!!

So the short answer is - the jury's still out on this line of thought, but FWIW, I do agree that late hopping may have something to do with haze contribution in beer.
Cheers,
TL