Brewing Pale Beers Sucessfully

[Tony]

I have brewed everything form the palest laget to the darkest stout. belgians, several different smoked interpritations of various styles, amber lagers, wheats, belgians, you name it.

out of everything the pale ones never seen to turn out as good.

they are always a bit hazy and.......i dont know, they just dont taste right.

I have only ever brewed one that was good and i have no idea how. I have full records of what i did but nothing seems different. It went on to get 4th in style in the AABC, only 1 point behind third.... bugger

as soon as i brew sonething over 16 EBC, it instantly becomes clear, smooth and ....well its how it should be.

I have just tried one of my pilsners i bottled 2 weeks ago and its hazy as hell :angry: as were my last couple of pale lagers.

I have just bought a flash bang pH meter to moniter my mash pH to try and see whats going on. It will be interesting to compare the initial mash pH of a 20 EBC beer to a 6 EBC beer.

I wonder if it has something to do with the local water. you read about certain regions beers being amber of pale or black because of the water chemistry.

will keep all posted with some pH readings and will also be adjusting to suit to hit the optimal 5.2 to 5.3 pH to see what happens.

cheers

 

[Stuster]

Good to see experimentation alive and well, even in Tamworth.

It may be that you are right about the water pH. Have you measured your water yet? As well as varying from region to region, it can vary from day to day. Perhaps you just caught it on a good beer day when you made that good light beer. Interesting to see if that is true for you.

How is the dunkelweizen coming along? :chug:

And what was that robust porter recipe BTW? :lol:

 

[Guest Lurker]

Hi Tony
pH would definitely be worth looking at. Buying a meter maybe made a bit of difference to my pale beers. The bigger difference in my pale beers though was using camden tablets to knock out the chlorine in the water. Low levels of chlorophenols stand out more to me in pale highly hopped beers, hadnt noticed them in darker beers. Camden tablets fixed that right up for me.

 

[vlbaby]

Tony,
I know exactly what you mean. I have being doing runs of pilsners in an attempt to discover the best technique/ingredients to brew the best beers. I beleive that a pilsner is one of the hardest because there is little other flavours to mask out faults. I have done only one pilsner so far that i was really proud of, and to be honest i'm not sure exactly how.

Keep us postered if you get it figured out.


vl.

 

[Tony]

k will do

check out my pH rester in another post i just put up

cheers

 

[Mr Bond]

I've noticed the amber/brown ales are clearer than a pils/ maize only grist.

Someone(can't remember who exactly) told me that darker specialty grains change the pH of the wort and add to clarity.

Can anyone with confirm ,deny?

 

[goatherder]

I've noticed the amber/brown ales are clearer than a pils/ maize only grist.

Someone(can't remember who exactly) told me that darker specialty grains change the pH of the wort and add to clarity.

Can anyone with confirm ,deny?

[post="124198"][/post]​

From what I understand, darker grains are more acidic and thus contribute to lowering the pH. I don't know enough to know how that affects clarity though...

 

[Darren]

Hi Tony
pH would definitely be worth looking at. Buying a meter maybe made a bit of difference to my pale beers. The bigger difference in my pale beers though was using camden tablets to knock out the chlorine in the water. Low levels of chlorophenols stand out more to me in pale highly hopped beers, hadnt noticed them in darker beers. Camden tablets fixed that right up for me.

[post="124185"][/post]​

GL,
Puratap takes out chlorine. You can justify it by telling SWMBO it is because all the drinking water in the house will taste better. You can then (late at night) use a hose to transfer water to your HLT.

cheers
Darren

BTW, pH meter is a waste of money. It needs to be calibrated constantly and the calibration solutions are toxic and they too "go off" requiring you to buy more annually. From years of working in labs I would go for pH strips (narrow range pH 3-7 or similar) Around $40/box of 50 strips (that can be cut into strips of three, hence 150 tests) they are better bang for buck. Will last a lifetime and are unbreakable (unlike pH meters which are very fragile like hydrometers).


cheers
Darren

 

[Darren]

If its immediate clarity you are after in a pils, you need to add polyclar to the final product. Only other choice is to wait a loooooooooong time at lager temps.


cheers
Darren

 

[Tony]

ahhh darren the brewing fun police

you know mate, i kind of hate you cause your always knocking but like you cause you raise the negative argument that makes you think.

buffer is not a problem. we have a lab at work. i can get a constant supply of fresh buffer from there. I work with and calibrate pH probes every second day at work and i work in the starch/glucose industry so have lots of help with enzyme conversion ect ect.

I make a good wage so $125 on an acurate piece of equipment i can claim on tax as i will use it work as well is not a waste of money to me.

we have a few of these around work and they have been going for a couple of years now with the origional probe. I ccalibrated one at our effluent farm 2 months ago and checked it on monday. It was 0.02 pH out!!!!!! bugger all.

and i use a hose to fill my HLT so shoot now or forever hold your peace!

cheers

 

[Tony]

yeah.... the looooooonh time at lager temps is the killer.

think i might end up giving the pales a miss and stick with ambers and darker

cheers

 

[Trough Lolly]

Tony, do you give your mash a protein rest at 55C before stepping up to saccharification rests? Try it and you should see a better clarity in your pale beers. Without wishing to offend, how's your conversion efficiency? You aren't sparging unconverted starch from the mashtun to the kettle and boiling it into the wort, are you?

Yes, dark and roasted grains do add acidity to the brew. Right now, our Canberra water is a bit, um, iffy! Experienced brewers in my club swear by a 100g inclusion of acidulated malt to take care of things...I'll be tossing it into a combined pale lager and ale grains (German) recipe that I'll ferment out with 1056 Ale yeast at lager temps - should be interesting...a kind of mutant koelsch!

Cheers,
TL

 

[Ross]

If its immediate clarity you are after in a pils, you need to add polyclar to the final product. Only other choice is to wait a loooooooooong time at lager temps.


cheers
Darren

[post="124207"][/post]​

I've never had a haze problem with my lagers using Aussie/German malts & yeast drops right out if I give them a few weeks at 2c - but polyclar is definately the go for removing protien haze, if you've got it - works a treat & can be used clear up carbonated beer as long as you have a filter to run it through.

Cheers Ross

 

[JSB]

Polyclar will also strip out or denude proteins for head retention....be careful on dose levels...Suggest taking a cooled sample over night with metered dosage and apply volume factor to the keg or bright beer cube

Cheers
jSB

 

[Tony]

trough lolly

yeah .... rest at 53 deg, decoct up to 66 to 67, decoct up to 76.

83% efficiency.

thats whats got me puzzled.

i added a lot of late hops to this pils so it sould be hop oils. It doesnt completly clear up as it warns up.

will be doing another pale beer to see what effect pH has on it and just what pH im getting compared to darker beers.

cheers

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Tony

It is rather obvious that you will have to disspose of ALl your pale beers.

Send them to me and I will make sure they are dissposed of in the correct manner.

 

[Tony]

na mate i will be right.

it will be a hard slog but someone has to do it.

I will do another double brew day soon.

I will make a pale lager with 100% pils malt to 1.045 and a 20 EBC bitter to the same SG using some crystal and choc malt to compare initial pH readings with no water chemistry adjustments.

will be interesting.

I will keep you posted

cheers

 

[Darren]

yeah.... the looooooonh time at lager temps is the killer.

think i might end up giving the pales a miss and stick with ambers and darker

cheers

[post="124209"][/post]​

Tony,
Polyclar works overnight. Binds to protein/tannin complexes and shouldn't affect head retention. I have used it without filtering. Just dumped the first two glasses and the rest was crystal clear.
I haven't used it for a few years now. Nowdays I just mash (63-65 for pils) and sparge (75) cool and add a bit of melanoidin for maltiness.

cheers
Darren

 

[Pumpy]

will keep all posted with some pH readings and will also be adjusting to suit to hit the optimal 5.2 to 5.3 pH to see what happens.

cheers

[post="124173"][/post]​

Hey Tony , I specifically asked what Ph this brewery I went to yesterday targeted and he said 8.5ph I remember asking him did he mean 5.8 ph but he distinctive ly said again 8.5ph they did not do any real filtering other than through a hopsack and priort o the chiller heat exchanger to stop any big bits of grain or hops getting stuck in there .
Gee they were clear and he claimed no serious filtering

Otherwise Tony some yeasts dont flocculate well .

I am sold on filtering so I can turn the beer around quickly

Pumpy

 

[Ross]

Polyclar works overnight. Binds to protein/tannin complexes and shouldn't affect head retention. I have used it without filtering. Just dumped the first two glasses and the rest was crystal clear.

[post="124416"][/post]​

Polyclar works in just 10 mins, but then requires filtering to remove. If leaving to naturally settle, I'd be leaving minimum 3 days...


Cheers Ross