Malted
Humdinger
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Might not be the BrewBrite, might be an infection?
Brewbrite Misadventure
- Thread starter krausenhaus
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Might not be the BrewBrite, might be an infection?
stakka82
Hoptimus Prime
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That's what I've been thinking since I first read this thread
My tub from MHB doesn't list the ratio. Also is Whirlfloc pure Carrageenan or does it have fillers? The other thing is that PVPP comes in different granule sizes I believe, depending on the application (winemaking whatever) so by grinding Whirlfloc and Polyclar together you wouldn't necessarily produce a mix equivalent to BrewBright. Maybe Mark could elucidate.
stux
Hacienda Brewhaus
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IIRC its basically about 50/50 carrageenan (the floc) and binders/dispersants (the whirl). The point being, irish moss you don't have to measure or fiddle with.
Actual ingredients:
Refined and Semi-refined Carrageenan Powder
Adipic Acid
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Bicarbonate
Magnesium Silicate
View attachment Whirlfloc.pdf
Thirsty Boy
ICB - tight shorts and poor attitude. **** yeah!
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Carageenan is a perfectly servicable gelling agent - put enough in your beer and you get beer jelly. Its a very common food additive used to thicken and give mouthfeel and is what they often use to make low/no fat things feel like they have oils and fats in them. No fat salad dressing being a typical example.
In beer it isn't doing that - in beer its there because in solution it carries an electrical charge, the opposite of the one carried by the proteins polyphenl/protein complexes that are cold break. It makes them come out of solution more readily and stick into bigger chunks.
Use too much - and you get left over charge on the break particles. And anyone who's rubbed a balloon on their head, knows that a lot of particles all with the same charge are going to repel eah other. The repulsive force opposes the gravity force and over-fined beers have break that does not settle compactly. The particles sit up all fuzzy, just like your hair after the balloon. They dont ever settle as well as they could, and they take a very long time to do it.
Use way too much and you start to see the gelling thing happen and instead of particles, you get a light almost fairfloss looking network that as near as I can tell, never settles. I've heavily over fined to see what happens, and after a month in the fridge, a 500ml sample still had only a cm or two of clear wort over a large mass of break material.
The PVPP - probably didn't have a hell of a lot to do with your jelly monster. Carageenan by itself would perhaps have been worse?? but would still have done essentially the same thing.
TB
In beer it isn't doing that - in beer its there because in solution it carries an electrical charge, the opposite of the one carried by the proteins polyphenl/protein complexes that are cold break. It makes them come out of solution more readily and stick into bigger chunks.
Use too much - and you get left over charge on the break particles. And anyone who's rubbed a balloon on their head, knows that a lot of particles all with the same charge are going to repel eah other. The repulsive force opposes the gravity force and over-fined beers have break that does not settle compactly. The particles sit up all fuzzy, just like your hair after the balloon. They dont ever settle as well as they could, and they take a very long time to do it.
Use way too much and you start to see the gelling thing happen and instead of particles, you get a light almost fairfloss looking network that as near as I can tell, never settles. I've heavily over fined to see what happens, and after a month in the fridge, a 500ml sample still had only a cm or two of clear wort over a large mass of break material.
The PVPP - probably didn't have a hell of a lot to do with your jelly monster. Carageenan by itself would perhaps have been worse?? but would still have done essentially the same thing.
TB
Thread bump as I couldn't find any info on a food product which contains Carageenan: called "Jel-it-in"- The packet states "clear and unflavoured" . I'm wondering if anyone has used it in beer or whether this has too many other chemicals to use...
Ingredients list is: Dried Glucose Syrup (from corn), Gelling Agents (Carrageenan, Locust Bean gum), Stabilisers: potassium choloride, calcium acetate
I'm mainly concerned about the extra glucose, which could be an extra fermentable, and also the stabilisers. I have NFI what they will do to a beer. any thoughts?
Ingredients list is: Dried Glucose Syrup (from corn), Gelling Agents (Carrageenan, Locust Bean gum), Stabilisers: potassium choloride, calcium acetate
I'm mainly concerned about the extra glucose, which could be an extra fermentable, and also the stabilisers. I have NFI what they will do to a beer. any thoughts?
philmud
Well-Known Member
I'd leave it alone, the glucose probably will ferment and the other stuff is unnecessary. Irish moss is carrageenan, so it's certainly a viable fining agent, but it's cheap as it is, so why use a product that had the additives?
