Brew Rig Options

[Jono_w]

yeah prob 50% my apprenticeship was learnt from teaching myself and 25% was watching people do it and the other 25% was being tought how to do it. Most of the time my dad would just talk to the customers and I would have to figure it out myself if it was wrong got a ear bashing lol. Biggest thing you can learn is problem solving. As my grate grandad did when he got a new worker he would see if there tools where sharp then he asked if they ever made a **** up if they said no then he would say cya later. As he said if you never done a **** up how are you meant to know how to fix one??

Right on Mate.
Don't even get me started on University graduates !! Only way to really learn is hands on.

So today was a pretty top day.
2 slabs and I have myself another milk vat, this one 800L jacketed and a 2 roller grain crusher!

 

[iralosavic]

Right on Mate.
Don't even get me started on University graduates !! Only way to really learn is hands on.

So today was a pretty top day.
2 slabs and I have myself another milk vat, this one 800L jacketed and a 2 roller grain crusher!
View attachment 53484

Woah! That is a sensational deal. You'd have sold your soul to have paid for your project so far if you weren't so good at finding deals like this!

What are you using it for?

 

[stux]

Right on Mate.
Don't even get me started on University graduates !! Only way to really learn is hands on.

So today was a pretty top day.
2 slabs and I have myself another milk vat, this one 800L jacketed and a 2 roller grain crusher!
View attachment 53484

Sweet...

I foresee an upgrade to your brewery's capacity before you even brew the first beer

 

[Jono_w]

Woah! That is a sensational deal. You'd have sold your soul to have paid for your project so far if you weren't so good at finding deals like this!

What are you using it for?

Yeah for sure, just have to be willing to wait for things to show up. This is why it has been an epic journey and may take a little while yet to get running.

I have 3 others of the exact style and brand but 1150L , I am just preparing to go bigger. Maybe I won't need them but at the price I have got them for it's worth stockpiling them for a rainy day.

Sweet...

I foresee an upgrade to your brewery's capacity before you even brew the first beer

I'm determined to get a beer out of the current system before I start anything else, my mates will kill me otherwise, and i'll cop it on here also!!


Cheers
Jono

 

[iralosavic]

You're going to need to sell your first brewery so you can buy a truck so you can move the second one around once it's built

 

[malt_shovel]

Today I spun up some coolant coils for my fermenters on the lathe.
View attachment 53424
What I'm planning on doing is running coolant / heating liquid through one of these in each 140L fermenter to maintain fermentation temp.
The fermenters are single skin stainless and will not be insulated as they look too pretty. our average temp here is 11 at night and 17 during the day. Hopefully It will be controllable or I will need to build a cool room.
:beer:

Dude,
They look sick, but for my mind they look mighty small for a 140L fermentor.

Before you commit to installing these, I would see if you can somehow test this on a similar vessel / wort volume (using water) to see how the temp changes. Ale ferments particularly can generate a fair whack of their own heat that can quickly get out of control, even in a fridge with 20L of wort.

Two problems I see:
- The external surface area of the fermenter will be far larger than the surface area in contact with fermenting wort with the coils, so you will be facing an uphill battle with the external environment.
- The surface area is confined to a relatively small volume that will need a lot of liquid movement to transfer the heat away or into the fermenting wort. Though there are thermal currents / CO2 bubbles that provide some movement, I am not confident a fermenting volume of wort will have the kind of transfer you would need to adjust the temp within a reasonable amount of time.

Best of luck and keep the updates coming. We are all loving this story!

 

[Jono_w]

Dude,
They look sick, but for my mind they look mighty small for a 140L fermentor.

Before you commit to installing these, I would see if you can somehow test this on a similar vessel / wort volume (using water) to see how the temp changes. Ale ferments particularly can generate a fair whack of their own heat that can quickly get out of control, even in a fridge with 20L of wort.

Two problems I see:
- The external surface area of the fermenter will be far larger than the surface area in contact with fermenting wort with the coils, so you will be facing an uphill battle with the external environment.
- The surface area is confined to a relatively small volume that will need a lot of liquid movement to transfer the heat away or into the fermenting wort. Though there are thermal currents / CO2 bubbles that provide some movement, I am not confident a fermenting volume of wort will have the kind of transfer you would need to adjust the temp within a reasonable amount of time.

Best of luck and keep the updates coming. We are all loving this story!

This is what I need to know mate,
I found this site that has a few formulas :huh: , I really need to figure out the engergy the fermentation creates and offset it while also consider the ambient temp.
I thought I might start with 1 then and another until I m able to control the temp. A lot of experimentation is on the cards.

I'm open to suggestions as getting info on systems this size is difficult .

Cheers.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Nice work mate it's absolutely incredible what you have done! I have been wondering how are you going to make a starter for such large batches and what will you use for packaging. Excuse me if this has already been asked but such a long thread.

cheers

Gav

 

[Jono_w]

Nice work mate it's absolutely incredible what you have done! I have been wondering how are you going to make a starter for such large batches and what will you use for packaging. Excuse me if this has already been asked but such a long thread.

cheers

Gav

Thanks Gav,
I have looked into a yeast brink setup but for now its on the back burner. Prob just a very expensive load of liquid yeast for the first couple.
For the first brews i'll try only brew 50L , not sure how the mashtun will handle this.

Storage in 50L kegs. No bottling for a while, well untill i build a bottling plant..haha

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Thanks Gav,
I have looked into a yeast brink setup but for now its on the back burner. Prob just a very expensive load of liquid yeast for the first couple.
For the first brews i'll try only brew 50L , not sure how the mashtun will handle this.

Storage in 50L kegs. No bottling for a while, well untill i build a bottling plant..haha

It's just crazyness!!! I love it. Keep it up, cant wait to see your first full volume brewday!!

 

[kelbygreen]

I know you laugh at the bottling plant but I am sure you will have a bottle station or keg station lol

 

[stux]

I only just scaled my whole setup to the original triple/60L design capacity.... And it felt good

Can't imagine commissioning your 140L monster

 

[kelbygreen]

lol I am doing 66lts tomorrow but using 2 MT and using my HLT to boil the single batch. I could prob squeeze a triple in the pot I have but this way I get 2 beers a ale and a pilsner

 

[malt_shovel]

This is what I need to know mate,
I found this site that has a few formulas :huh: , I really need to figure out the engergy the fermentation creates and offset it while also consider the ambient temp.
I thought I might start with 1 then and another until I m able to control the temp. A lot of experimentation is on the cards.

I'm open to suggestions as getting info on systems this size is difficult .

Cheers.

I guess there are two ways,

Try to calculate the loads etc using some formulas you are tracking down, or try to copy what is done commercially and apply to your fermentors dimensions.

I think a good starting point would be to look towards jacketed fermentors. By this I mean work out from a commercial system the ratio of surface area of the jacketed part of a twin walled vessel to the volume capacity, and then apply that ratio to the volume of your fermenter. This will give you a scaled up / down version of what sort of surface area you would need with your immersion coils. The only problem with taking this approach is it doesn't account for the "blanket" effect a jacketed system would have against the external temps and it doesn't account for the differnce between what cooling fluid you are planning to use through the coils against what the commercial guys use (probably a glycol chiller).

If nothing else it will give you a quick idea on how close you are with the coils you already have made. Also would look to have coils which have a wider arc / diameter to reduce the "cool" spots you would expect with the ones you have already. This might avoid having to move fermenting wort around the smaller coils.

For input to your other calculations, I would use a temp increase around 3 - 5 degC during ale ferments (as compared to the ambient temp) to get a feel for the thermal load.

Not sure how to tackle the problem of movement within the fermenter short of using an agitator that gently swirls things around.

That's all i got dude, hope someone can offer something more concrete.

Cheers

 

[Jono_w]

I guess there are two ways,

Try to calculate the loads etc using some formulas you are tracking down, or try to copy what is done commercially and apply to your fermentors dimensions.

I think a good starting point would be to look towards jacketed fermentors. By this I mean work out from a commercial system the ratio of surface area of the jacketed part of a twin walled vessel to the volume capacity, and then apply that ratio to the volume of your fermenter. This will give you a scaled up / down version of what sort of surface area you would need with your immersion coils. The only problem with taking this approach is it doesn't account for the "blanket" effect a jacketed system would have against the external temps and it doesn't account for the differnce between what cooling fluid you are planning to use through the coils against what the commercial guys use (probably a glycol chiller).

If nothing else it will give you a quick idea on how close you are with the coils you already have made. Also would look to have coils which have a wider arc / diameter to reduce the "cool" spots you would expect with the ones you have already. This might avoid having to move fermenting wort around the smaller coils.

For input to your other calculations, I would use a temp increase around 3 - 5 degC during ale ferments (as compared to the ambient temp) to get a feel for the thermal load.

Not sure how to tackle the problem of movement within the fermenter short of using an agitator that gently swirls things around.

That's all i got dude, hope someone can offer something more concrete.

Cheers

Ok that's a great start, I have a bit more research to do. I would rather not have to jacket the tanks maybe a cool room is easier.

 

[mjadeb1984]

any updates jonathon been hanging out for some more of your madness.

 

[QldKev]

next progress report is not due for another 6 months. h34r:

any chance you work for the Government?

 

[Jono_w]

Sorry Guys it has been a while, I'm up in Airlie Beach for a week I will update when I get home.
Any Breweries up here?

Just turned 30 so I jumped out of a plane at 14,000 feet.



CHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS!

 

[RobW]

Happy Birthday Jonathon

 

[eviljesus]

Sorry Guys it has been a while, I'm up in Airlie Beach for a week I will update when I get home.
Any Breweries up here?

Just turned 30 so I jumped out of a plane at 14,000 feet.

View attachment 54147

CHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS!

Good stuff! I'm from Airlie, going to be back there in 2 weeks!

If you havent already. You absolutely CANNOT leave until you have visited Denham Cellars. It down at the new Port of Airlie area. Drink there or takeway.

200+ beers and 100+ types of cider. The place is like heaven. The literally have almost everything. Thats the only place for decent beer though.