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My first solo bread.... done with an ale poolish (using my chilli and kaffir lime ale)

It has caramelised walnuts and gorgonzola... My work mates are enjoying it with Maggie Beer's Fig and fennel paste. very tasty and quite proud of myself. Thanks Lloydie for the lesson.



beer_and_bread_046.jpg
 
Katie,

Yours(and your mans) bread pics are something to behold, never seen bread that looks so nice let alone what it tastes like.

I think you have motivated a few to make sourdough now. myself included.

Great work with your beer and your bread... Fantastic.
 
Katie,

Yours(and your mans) bread pics are something to behold, never seen bread that looks so nice let alone what it tastes like.

I think you have motivated a few to make sourdough now. myself included.

Great work with your beer and your bread... Fantastic.

Thank you very much, nice to hear...

Katie
 
2nd batch of Pain de Campagne du Rustique. This time it i watched it like a hawk!

Followed Lloydies solid beer thread for the starter and then mixed in required flour/water etc to get the loaf. Allowed it to rise (twice) in front of the fire while i was brewing.

Not too shabby - Cheers Llloydie for all the PMs, you're a legend!. :super:

DSCF2230.jpg
 
Looks awesome.... Dr...

you do know that the solid beer thread was an experiment but we also found it created good bread.

Let us know what it tastes like?
 
:super: Bloody nicely baked bread by the look of it Doctor!!
I'd love to know how it tasted and how the crumb looked.
Are you using a stone in your oven?
 
Pizza stone was used.

Had a tin of water in the oven as well.

Oven set to 230C.

Nice chewy crust that wasnt overly crunchy. Was very dense but partner agreed, great sourdough character.

Toasted with peanut butter (cheers katie) or vegemite was tops.

Even smeared with oil from home roasted & marinated capsicums was fantastic.
 
Need to find a decent bread making shop in Adelaide to source all the different flours.
Check out Gaganis brothers for bulk flours - they have 10kg sacks for around $12. The Gaganis special white is awesome for pizzas, and I've had good results with the Allied Mills superb bakers flour for white loaves.
 
These breads look great!

I made some yeast raised Choc-hazelnut Cinnamon scrolls for dessert tonight. I was very pleased with my first (non packet mix) bread effort.

IMG_8595_800.JPG
IMG_8597_800.JPG
 
Check out Gaganis brothers for bulk flours - they have 10kg sacks for around $12. The Gaganis special white is awesome for pizzas, and I've had good results with the Allied Mills superb bakers flour for white loaves.

Anything a tad closer to us?

Was thinking of dropping in on Bake and Brew at Gawler but i suspect its more packet mix based?
 
Black and gold all purpose tops even the strong baker's from allied
 
These breads look great!

I made some yeast raised Choc-hazelnut Cinnamon scrolls for dessert tonight. I was very pleased with my first (non packet mix) bread effort.

IMG_8595_800.JPG
IMG_8597_800.JPG

:icon_drool2:
 
Anything a tad closer to us?

Was thinking of dropping in on Bake and Brew at Gawler but i suspect its more packet mix based?

I have seen sacks of Lauckes wallaby which is an organic bakers flour (I think) at the fruit and veg near woolies in mt barker - other than that, you can find some of the gaganis flours at foodland on glen osmond rd or the parade!
 
Also keen for any recipes anyone has.

I did this one yesterday, pretty simple, extremely tasty.
I'm yet to give this baking game a fair dinkim go so I keep it pretty simple for now.
I got the recipe off the net.

Ingredients

450g cooked pureed pumpkin

1 cup (250ml) vegetable oil

4 eggs

3 cups (430g) plain flour

3 cups white sugar

1 teaspoons baking soda

1 teaspoons salt

1 teaspoons ground allspice

1 teaspoons ground nutmeg

2 teaspoons ground cinnamon

cup (60g) chopped walnuts

1 teaspoon baking powder

Preparation method

Preheat oven to 150 degrees C.

Combine pumpkin, oil and eggs. Sift together dry ingredients. Combine the two mixtures, blending thoroughly.

Pour into 2 greased 22x13cm loaf pans and bake for 1 hour.
 
I once made a few loaves of with a sourdough culture I started with the lees of an IPA brew. The started kicked off really well and was pumping for about a month. It had slowed down a bit to normal starter levels but it still smelled beery and beautiful.

I tried some rye breads, some plain organic white sourdough, a few wholegrain mixes and quite simply every one of them was terrible.

The flavour was ordinary, the crumb was grey and soggy, the crust was thick and also grey and soft and not once did anyone enjoy eating it.

A very dissapointing thing. I tried everything I could to make it good but in the end I threw out the starter (after, of course adding a little bit to my normal white starter)
 
Also keen for any recipes anyone has.
I've been making bread by that no-knead method the New York Times wrote about. Latest efforts involve spent grain because we have so much of it.

The recipe is:
600g flour (up to 50% wholewheat, or up to 20% rye)
150-200g spent grain
2 teaspoons salt
400ml water
some bread improver (supposedly Australian flours need it?)
1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon dried yeast (i.e. bugger all)

The method revolves around a really long first ferment -- maybe it's like the poolish Katie mentioned above. I mix it all together, including the yeast, don't play with it too much, then leave it covered in a bowl for up to a day (24 hours). Looks like first and second photo below at this point.
Then I punch it down, and mix in more flour if needed. Roll it in cornmeal or polenta or oats or just more flour to stop it sticking to everything, and let it rise again for 2-3 hours.
Bake in a covered, heavy pot for 30 minutes at 230C, and uncovered for another 15 minutes or so. The really wet dough steams itself, forming a crunchy crust, in place of putting a bowl of water in the oven or spraying with a mister. I haven't actually got a good heavy pot myself, so just use my bread pan with a baking sheet over the top as a lid.

I'm still working on the numbers, as I've been trying to get it to work in my breadmachine (just the baking bit) so I can set a timer for fresh bread in the morning. The breadmachine only gets up to 150C so it's been a bit tricky getting the moisture content right.

dough1.jpg
dough2.jpg

and here's some photos of the bread:
loaf.JPG
loafdetail.JPG

ben
 
I've been making bread by that no-knead method the New York Times wrote about. Latest efforts involve spent grain because we have so much of it.

The recipe is:
600g flour (up to 50% wholewheat, or up to 20% rye)
150-200g spent grain
2 teaspoons salt
400ml water
some bread improver (supposedly Australian flours need it?)
1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon dried yeast (i.e. bugger all)

The method revolves around a really long first ferment -- maybe it's like the poolish Katie mentioned above. I mix it all together, including the yeast, don't play with it too much, then leave it covered in a bowl for up to a day (24 hours). Looks like first and second photo below at this point.
Then I punch it down, and mix in more flour if needed. Roll it in cornmeal or polenta or oats or just more flour to stop it sticking to everything, and let it rise again for 2-3 hours.
Bake in a covered, heavy pot for 30 minutes at 230C, and uncovered for another 15 minutes or so. The really wet dough steams itself, forming a crunchy crust, in place of putting a bowl of water in the oven or spraying with a mister. I haven't actually got a good heavy pot myself, so just use my bread pan with a baking sheet over the top as a lid.

I'm still working on the numbers, as I've been trying to get it to work in my breadmachine (just the baking bit) so I can set a timer for fresh bread in the morning. The breadmachine only gets up to 150C so it's been a bit tricky getting the moisture content right.

View attachment 28991
View attachment 28992

and here's some photos of the bread:
View attachment 28993
View attachment 28994

ben


And here's the latest loaf from yesterday:

View attachment 29024

ben.
Bread improver is a good move.Also try a little oil,it helps with volume and freshness
Also a bit of gluten will help,try 1 to 2%
 
Bread improver is a good move.Also try a little oil,it helps with volume and freshness
Also a bit of gluten will help,try 1 to 2%
What is bread improver exactly? What's in it?
 
All that says is that it's a "combination of ingredients that improve" the bread. What I want to know is what those ingredients are. If I don't know what's in my bread, I may as well be using a packet mix. I want to know the raw ingredients. It's the same curiosity and desire for control that makes me do all-grain beer.

Does anyone know what is actually in "bread improver"?
 
All that says is that it's a "combination of ingredients that improve" the bread. What I want to know is what those ingredients are. If I don't know what's in my bread, I may as well be using a packet mix. I want to know the raw ingredients. It's the same curiosity and desire for control that makes me do all-grain beer.

Does anyone know what is actually in "bread improver"?
Bread Improvers and their Functions in Bread Dough


The word improver could describe any process or ingredient that improves or enhances the quality of a baked loaf. In Australia, however, it usually refers to one specific ingredient. It is a blend of many compounds that have a specific effect on the final loaf quality or the processing of bread doughs. Bread improvers are usually, although not always, built on a Soya flour base or carrier. See below for a list of the most widely used bread improver bases;



Soya flour

wheat flour

Soya and wheat flour blend

diastatic malt flour



This carrier ingredient is blended with various micro-ingredients. The main function of the carrier is to allow the baker to weigh up a mixture of micro-ingredients in a practical and economical way, as the levels required are so small ( e.g. 30 parts ascorbic acid per one million parts flour) that the baker would not be able to weigh them with sufficient accuracy. However, it is these micro-ingredients that carry out the improving effects. These effects include:



gluten modification

yeast stimulation

enzyme supplementation

(In some types of improvers) crumb softening.



The levels of micro ingredients vary from improver to improver. There are two main types of improver. They are:



standard improvers

instant improvers




Standard improvers are used for bulk fermented doughs, doughs with long dough-to-oven times (DTO). Instant improvers are used for rapid doughs, doughs with short DTO times.



In todays rapid-dough systems, bread improvers affect the changes and modifications that occur in bulk fermented doughs without the long fermentation times being necessary. Today there are many bread improvers on the market, and many have a specific formulation. The blend of micro-ingredients in bread improvers is based on specific flour types and specific processing needs.



It is important to use the right improver for the flour type and process you are using and for the type of bread you are making. Be sure of the suitability of the improver. Be sure of the suitability of the improver you are using by contacting the manufacturer for technical specifications etc.




Main functions of bread improvers


Bread improvers have three main functions. They are:



1 conditioning the gluten

2 providing yeast with nitrogen source

3 enhancement of diastatic enzyme activity




1 Gluten Conditioning


In Section 2 Gluten development we dealt with gluten modification through the two processes called oxidation and reduction. These two processes are highly influenced by the compounds contained in bread improvers. These compounds are as follows:



ascorbic acid (oxidising agent) gluten strengthening

sodium meta-bisulphite (reducing agent) gluten softening

L-cystine (hydrochloride)




Notes


In order to retain the gas produced by the yeast in the dough, and to achieve good volume and a tender crumb in the final loaf, it is necessary to change or modify some gluten characteristics. Underdeveloped gluten in the dough at the commencement of mixing requires reduction (breaking of the cross bonds) to allow the gluten protein strands to be teased out and realigned. This process is achieved by the use of mechanical energy (mixing) and reducing agents. Reducing agents break the cross bonds, allowing the gluten strands to be untangled. This process imparts a measure of elasticity to the gluten protein and allows it to extend. Reducing agents are present in some types of bread improvers designed for dough overstable flours.



The ability of gluten protein to withstand the stress of the expanding gas and to retain it is enhanced by the formation of cross bonds (sulphur bridges). These cross bonds result in gluten strength gluten with an improved gas retaining ability. Cross bonds are encouraged by the presence of an oxidising agent. All bread improvers contain the oxidising agent ascorbic acid (Vitamin c).




2 Nitrogen source for yeast


The yeast cell requires nitrogen to synthesise proteins for new cell growth. Bread improvers provide a source of nitrogen for the yeast cell in the form of the mineral salt:



ammonium chloride or

ammonium sulphate



These compounds are readily absorbed by the yeast cell and energise yeast reproduction and zymase enzyme activity. The net effect is enhanced gas production.




3 Enhancement of diastatic enzyme activity


Bread improvers contain enzyme rich malt flour or fungal enzymes. Fungal enzymes are derived from specific fungi that naturally grow on wheat grain. These enzymes are from the amylase group which are always present in the flour and are responsible for the conversation of starch into maltose sugars. When the yeast is stimulated an additional supply of sugar is required. As the can sugar added by the baker and the limited amount present in the flour is not sufficient for the rapid dough method. This deficiency needs to be overcome in order to ensure there is sufficient sugar present to maintain steady yeast activity in the final proving and the initial backing stage.



Bread improver ensures this additional supply of sugar is provided by the amylase enzyme activity (diastatic activity). Diastatic activity is the conversion of starch (a polysaccharide) to dextrins by the enzyme alpha amylase. Dextrins are also polysaccharides but somewhat smaller. They are often referred to as long chain sugars. Dextrins are further broken down or converted to maltose (a disaccharide) by the enzyme beta amylase. Although flour contains both alpha and beta amylase enzymes, it is often deficient in alpha amylase enzymes.
















Additional Functions


Today most improvers contain crumb softening agents, anti-firming agents or emulsifiers. These crumb softeners and anti-firming agents include



mono and diglycerides of fatty forming acids

diacetyl tartaric esters of mono and diglycerides of fatty forming acids

sodium stearoyl lactylate (SSL0

calcium stearoyl lactylate (CSL)

lecithin polysorbates

sorbitans
 
Wow thanks for that. Diastatic malt sounds interesting.... I wonder if I could just crush some bb galaxy and use that. Certainly wouldn't hurt the flavour any.
 
Wow thanks for that. Diastatic malt sounds interesting.... I wonder if I could just crush some bb galaxy and use that. Certainly wouldn't hurt the flavour any.
I have been a baker for over 20 years and have never really read what was in improver :eek: I just know its great stuff ;)
 
I used it consistently for about 5-6 years, baking 4-6 loaves every Saturday, then I ran out, found the bread came out just the same, and have not used it since (i.e. about the last 8 years).

I suspect it makes a big difference what flour, yeast, etc, you are using. If you have good fresh bread flour, and a vigorous yeast, it probably doesn't make much difference. If you're using cake flour, or marginal yeast, it probably makes a lot more difference.

T.
 
Bread improver is a good move.Also try a little oil,it helps with volume and freshness
Also a bit of gluten will help,try 1 to 2%
I've put a tablespoon of olive oil in my latest batch (just finished mixing it tonight), so I'll get to see the difference over the next few days as the loaf ages.

I don't want to add too much stuff to my bread, even the improver is a bit over the top for me, but I've been convinced by my dad that it's worthwhile. I think it's probably more important for very short DTO loaves like the breadmaker ones, but the style I'm using for these has a really long ferment, so it may not need it. In fact, by the skim-read of that info above from you, it may be not so good for long ferments.
What would adding gluten do, apart from giving the bread more gluten! Is gluten 'developed' during fermentation/rising? If I have a really long ferment, does that negate the need for adding gluten? I'm guessing here, don't know enough about it.

I better get out of the way of some on-topic bread pr0n...
 
Made some rolls for some burgers tonight.

IMG_0972_1.JPG

Made these using the French kneading technique from a book called Dough (see my review in another thread).

Yum.

Cheers
Dave
 
Made some rolls for some burgers tonight.

View attachment 29566

Made these using the French kneading technique from a book called Dough (see my review in another thread).

Yum.

Cheers
Dave
They look fantastic. That kneading technique is great eh? I love how the dough starts coming together and gets that silky look to it. "Coming alive" he calls it. :) I have his other book Crust and I'm trying to find Dough. Did you buy it recently, and if so can you tell me where? It seems to have been out of stock for a while everywhere I have looked, so I'm hoping it's back again.

-Bonj
 
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