Braumeister clone no boil

[L_Power]

Gday,

I picked up a nice bit of kit last year. Massive pot 90 Liters maybe (480mm dia.) 2.4 kw dual ring element, genuine braumeister 50L short malt pipe, Kaixin pump all run by a Brauduino/Ardbir controller.
I have finally managed to get it plumbed and wired up the way i wanted and gave it a test run over the weekend.

The test did not go so well.

5kg of malt for a 23l batch. Went through all the mash steps beautifully ended up with about 35 litres pre boil after sparging but could not get a boil.
I set the boil PWM to 100%, put a camp mat around it and still no boil.
Now I'm sad.

Before I rush out and get a 3.6kw element made and a sparky to run a 15amp ciruit, could there be something wrong with my gear? Or is my element just not powerful enough for such a wide pot?

Cheers.

PS. The batch was saved, I left it overnight then transferred to my keggle and boiled the next morning.

 

[MitchD]

What did you have your boil temperature set point and what was the maximum temperature reached during the boil phase?

 

[dblunn]

Hi, 2.4kW for a single batch is ok although the pot is quite big. What about the settings on the system, does the Ardbir have a boil temp setting that may have been set too low?
Dave

 

[L_Power]

Boil temp was set to 97. Boil mode was triggered. Reached 98-99. I put a lid on to help get to the boil, but when i took it off it slowly stopped boiling.

 

[pist]

2.4kw is 2400w. Which is about what is necessary to boil a single batch. For doubles your going to need bout 4400w to get a decent boil

 

[MastersBrewery]

You need to list your controller settings.

 

[rude]

AS above

When the lid is off is your'e element on

 

[NealK]

With the unit in manual mode set the temp to 105. Turn on the heat and check at what temperature your water actually boils. If this is not 100 you may need to calibrate the temp settings. If your temp reading is different to the actual temp then your mash temp will be out as well.
You could probably do this with 10 litres or less and you may as well chuck in some citric acid to give your element a good clean at the same time.
Set the boil temp to whatever your water boils at.
Make sure that the boil is set to 100%
Your element should be fine to boil 36 litres, I think you just need to tinker with your ardbir settings.
Let us know how you get on.
Neal

 

[MastersBrewery]

If pid settings are wacked you may never get to the boil

 

[MitchD]

Sounds like too much surface area and not enough watts. If you put the element in the keggle you'll have no problem with 23l

 

[rude]

Hey L-P any chance of some photos sounds like agood unit alright

 

[Cervantes]

Have you considered knocking up some kind of hood? My 20L BM has a less than vigorous boil, but if I put the hood on it improves no end.

Would be a cheap fix if it works.

Another option would be an over the side element just for the boil.

 

[L_Power]

Settings as follows.

PID settings

P=80
I=10
D=40
window=1064
Used in boil=100%
Calibration=0

Units settings
Probe=inside
Boil=99

I did a wet run first and checked the probe calibration and it is spot on.
Initially had the boil set to 97 and "used in boil" was set to 15%, it would heat up to 97 then drop.
Changed to 99 and 100% it just sits at 99.

Hey L-P any chance of some photos sounds like agood unit alright

I will get some up later this morning.

 

[MastersBrewery]

As I thought drop the D value entirely.
P =100
I =2
D =0
Window set = 2500

I'm not great at this stuff but the idea is to let P and I do all the work. Only use D if over shooting. Try tuning with P and I fi

 

[QldKev]

Can you bypass the pid and plug the element directly into the power? It would show if it is a pid or element issue.

If you do need more power, why not mount a second 2400w element.

 

[NealK]

Did it boil at 99?

 

[TheWiggman]

I'm not familiar with the electric system but if you want a boil, you shouldn't be targeting a temp. The element should be on and that's that (as per Kev's recommendation). 2.4kW isn't much for 35l but it should be able to boil and will take a long time to get there.

 

[NealK]

The boil set temp should be set to the temp that your wort starts boiling. When this temp is reached then the timer starts and the element will stay on 100% until the timer has finished. Set it too high and your timer will never start, too low and you might not boil for long enough as the timer will kick in before the wort is boiling.
I have mine set to 99 because that is when my wort is visibly boiling. I have never needed to mess with the PID setting in Ardbir. If you have the temp calibrated and the boil temp set correctly then you should be fine. I have had an issue in the past that the timer would not start but a quick update to the latest version of Ardbir sorted that out. If you have one of Lael's new boxes then the version of Ardbir has been tested by Lael and he is very happy that it is stable so I would think twice before changing it.