Braumeister Chiller Revisited

[Murdoch]

Interesting point with the copper vs stainless steel - i think we all know that copper is the better conductor of heat (and this can be seen in electronics, with the more effective heatsinks coolers being made from copper), but it is easy to be blind sided by the lure of stainless steel - but not as effective in this application. Makes you wonder why Speidel went for stainless steel (though it has been mentioned before that their water supply temperature is lower than ours - maybe they were not expecting to have as much demand for the BM abroad in hotter countries).

Murdoch, can I ask what make model of immersion chiller (IC) you are using - in the photo it appears to fit into the BM nicely (is that a 20 or 50 in the photo?). I would like to find out which IC would offer the highest cooling surface area to suit a 50L BM.

In the Jamil article, i think it says that the optimum circumference for the cooler coil is close to that of the containing vessel. Prior to reading this I would have guessed having the cooler coil circumference bisecting the vessel radius half way would have been the most desirable.

I am thinking that if you already have a pump attached, that an alternate method to prevent boil interruption when placing the IC into the BM would be to recirculate some boiling water through this first, and therefore the chiller would be close to same temp as the boil when inserted.

I have heard that the BM pumps can be modified some how to create a whirlpool effect - providing this is possible, I wonder how much difference in cooling there would be in doing this vs manually running the pumps during cooling without any modification. I believe that pumps will not manually turn on until wort temp of less than 80 degrees C is reached.

One thing for sure, there's definitely are a lot of factors to consider when planning the 'perfect' brew setup!

Brew Matt its just 18M of 1/2" copper wrapped round to fit a 98L Robinox pot
When I got the BM (50L) I wanted to keep the immersion cooler & I found it fitted fine
I got some SS hooks made up to suspend the cooler on so it doesnt touch the heating elements
Probably dont need to do this ? ......

 

[SJW]

I put the copper chiller in the BM and use tap water to get the wort down to 40 deg C then i pump ice slurry through for 10mins to bring it down to 20 deg C.
It works heaps quicker if you turn the BM pump on while chilling also.
My chiller sits on the bottom inside the diameter of the BM's element and the pump outlet blows the wort straight up the inside of my copper chiller coils.

 

[donburke]

Interesting point with the copper vs stainless steel - i think we all know that copper is the better conductor of heat (and this can be seen in electronics, with the more effective heatsinks coolers being made from copper), but it is easy to be blind sided by the lure of stainless steel - but not as effective in this application. Makes you wonder why Speidel went for stainless steel (though it has been mentioned before that their water supply temperature is lower than ours - maybe they were not expecting to have as much demand for the BM abroad in hotter countries).

Murdoch, can I ask what make model of immersion chiller (IC) you are using - in the photo it appears to fit into the BM nicely (is that a 20 or 50 in the photo?). I would like to find out which IC would offer the highest cooling surface area to suit a 50L BM.

In the Jamil article, i think it says that the optimum circumference for the cooler coil is close to that of the containing vessel. Prior to reading this I would have guessed having the cooler coil circumference bisecting the vessel radius half way would have been the most desirable.

I am thinking that if you already have a pump attached, that an alternate method to prevent boil interruption when placing the IC into the BM would be to recirculate some boiling water through this first, and therefore the chiller would be close to same temp as the boil when inserted.

I have heard that the BM pumps can be modified some how to create a whirlpool effect - providing this is possible, I wonder how much difference in cooling there would be in doing this vs manually running the pumps during cooling without any modification. I believe that pumps will not manually turn on until wort temp of less than 80 degrees C is reached.

One thing for sure, there's definitely are a lot of factors to consider when planning the 'perfect' brew setup!

a stainless steel immersion chiller works just fine, given its not as good a conductor as copper, then allow for that, longer, narrower coil, giving enough time for the heat exhange to take place via the conductor

 

[Tony]

I have been thinking about these things for a while now, planning a better cooling system

An idea i have is to use a plate chiller to give a similar result as an imersion chiller.

Theory is to recirculate hot wort through the plate chiller, back into the kettle untill the temp drops to a point where it can be easily chilled to tap water temp on its way to the fermenter. This way the wort and hops get a similar treatment as they would with an imersion chiller with late hops getting a rest in cooled wort before getting pumped out of the kettle.

Im sure plenty of people already do this or something similar, and i think it cound work for the BM.

cheers

 

[the_new_darren]

Tony,

I have found returning cooled wort to the boiler is VERY ineffective. In fact the temp drops really slowly. I dont know why, it could be that the cooled wort falls to the bottom and straight back into the pick-up tube. You would be better dropping your late hops into the 10 litres of wort before your boiler is empty.

tnd

 

[alford_j]

my trick with my 18m immersion chiller takes a little fore-thought but I can chill to lager pitching temp no problem.

1) Make 2 x 8L bucket ice blocks in the fermenting fridge 2 days before brewing.
2)The night before brewing, put fermenter in the brew fridge with about 20L water in it.
3)Use an esky/bucket with a pond pump in it to hold chilled water and ice.
4)Use tap water to chill wort to say 40c where the temp difference between the wort and the tap water becomes small and cooling slows down considerably.
5)Swap to iced water and pump it through the coil to finish the cooling.

I have chilled 30L to 13c with this setup no problem. The trick is to let the tap water do the bulk of the work to avoid melting your ice, then the ice water completes the job. This trick would apply also to counterflow chillers, plate chillers etc providing you recirculated them for a bit as per Tony's idea.

Alfie

 

[sim]

I have found returning cooled wort to the boiler is VERY ineffective.


Maybe pump to different vessel (whirlpool tank), and pump back if required? Toying with this idea at the moment to, but with stainless immersion.

 

[the_new_darren]

As Ross pointed out, the easiest and most cost effective way to do it is to get the wort to water temp, put the fermenter in the fridge overnight, then pitch the next morning.

Recirculating cooled wort back into the boiler uses twice as much water (and time) than directly chilling into the fridge.

I use a copper counterflow chiller. 70 litres down to +2 degrees or water temp in about 30 minutes.

tnd

 

[manticle]

put the fermenter in the fridge overnight, then pitch the next morning.

Sounds almost like no-chill.

 

[Brew Matt]

Brew Matt its just 18M of 1/2" copper wrapped round to fit a 98L Robinox pot
When I got the BM (50L) I wanted to keep the immersion cooler & I found it fitted fine
I got some SS hooks made up to suspend the cooler on so it doesnt touch the heating elements
Probably dont need to do this ? ......

Murdoch, if you were making the chiller again to suit the BM 50, would you make any changes? (ie increase the length, coil diameter, copper thickness etc).

The hooks seem like a good idea, as I have heard of the BM elements getting bent.

 

[the_new_darren]

Sounds almost like no-chill.

Yeah almost except I only do it for lagers. I most often brew in winter and can hit pitching temps for ales no problem.

tnd

 

[manticle]

Good natured joke only.

 

[the_new_darren]

Good natured joke only.

Taken as

 

[Brew Matt]

After deciding that a 30 plate chiller (Chillout Mk3 or similar) was the way to go after speaking to some in the know, I have heard from others equally knowledgable backing immersion chiller (copper 14 meter or greater).

I had dismissed the immersion option, but the immersion/whirlpool argument put forward by Jamil (http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php) is a pretty convincing one - to the extent where it mentions changing from plate to immersion.

Seeking feedback, particularly with respect to the Braumeister 50L. I know Speidel make an immersion chiller themselves (which doesnt sell well; maybe for good reason?) - is anyone using using a better immersion chiller (or has anyone made a whirlpool chiller to suit)?

Some of the points mentioned in no order include:

-The BM boil gets interrupted by the Immersion chiller when placed in wort for sterilization 20 minutes before end of boil
- Improved hop aroma for immersion/whirlpool without having to add a hop rocket or similar inline to plate chiller

Feedback invited.

Is anyone able to comment on this immersion chiller and its suitability to a 50L Braumeister. Could not find a link from the manufacturers site, so have linked to a seller of this product. Also open to similar products put out by other manufacturers.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7047

Wondering if there is something with more surface area than this, and also whether the one pictured is going to make contact with the BM element (which is not desired).

 

[Brew Matt]

Is anyone able to comment on this immersion chiller and its suitability to a 50L Braumeister. Could not find a link from the manufacturers site, so have linked to a seller of this product. Also open to similar products put out by other manufacturers.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7047

Wondering if there is something with more surface area than this, and also whether the one pictured is going to make contact with the BM element (which is not desired).

Or this one (manufacturers site) http://www.homebru.com.au/index.php?main_p...products_id=116

 

[micblair]

I've done a couple of brews now with a 50L immersion chiller purchased from grain and grape, and extremely happy with the time taken to get below 40-45C, where I use ambient cooling in my garage to do the rest.

Whilst the first batch was cooled quite rapidly with the pumps running (NS lager), the latest batch which was an IPA with lots of late hop additions, caused a lot of sedimentation/break material to be persistently re-suspended.

Simply whirlpooling and waiting (up to 15 mins) didn't result in clear wort (note: brewbrite was used), or at least approaching the clarity at 'flame-out' prior to re-circulating the wort in conjunction with the immersion chiller.

There are a few factors I believe which could have contributed to this:

-More hop material caused increase trub
-Not cooling all the way to ambient temperature
-Not waiting long enough
-Half batch

Whilst I probably won't be doing another half batch for some time, I'm reluctant to use the pumps, and perhaps just rely on vigorous whilpooling, at least for an IPA... would like to hear your experience.

 

[wobbly]

I have found running the pump on my 20lt unit results in a lot more sediment in suspension. Maybe the pump breaks up the hop material.

So I now use a hop sock and don't rum the BM pump with much inproved results

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Brew Matt]

I've done a couple of brews now with a 50L immersion chiller purchased from grain and grape, and extremely happy with the time taken to get below 40-45C, where I use ambient cooling in my garage to do the rest.

Whilst the first batch was cooled quite rapidly with the pumps running (NS lager), the latest batch which was an IPA with lots of late hop additions, caused a lot of sedimentation/break material to be persistently re-suspended.

Simply whirlpooling and waiting (up to 15 mins) didn't result in clear wort (note: brewbrite was used), or at least approaching the clarity at 'flame-out' prior to re-circulating the wort in conjunction with the immersion chiller.

There are a few factors I believe which could have contributed to this:

-More hop material caused increase trub
-Not cooling all the way to ambient temperature
-Not waiting long enough
-Half batch

Whilst I probably won't be doing another half batch for some time, I'm reluctant to use the pumps, and perhaps just rely on vigorous whilpooling, at least for an IPA... would like to hear your experience.

Hi Micblair,

Was this the immersion chiller you used? http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7047

 

[micblair]

Hi Micblair,

Was this the immersion chiller you used? http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7047

Yes. All though I got it during whilst it was on sale, 20% off! :kooi:

 

[DarkFaerytale]

for those useing a 50L brau with immersion chiller, roughly how much water in liters would you be useing to cool the wort down to pitching temp?