Removal of Hot/Cold Break and oher Kettle Trub

[Adr_0]

Those using a chiller plate does returning/recirculating the output from the chiller back to the whirlpool/boiler via a filter/hop back until the full boil volume is chilled show any reduced amount of cold break transferred to the fermentation vessel either via one last pass of the chiller/hop back or direct from the boiler to the fermenter

Cheers

Wobbly

I will let you know how the return from the plate chiller goes in about 5-6 weeks. A couple of things to consider:
- The return line shouldn't splash the beer around too much (a little is fine) as according to the Belgians this can have a neg impact on head retention
- Putting my engineer hat on, I would then be conscious of stratification if you returned to the bottom of the kettle (via a dip tube over the top), i.e. cold stuff on the bottom of the kettle staying in a layer there and being recycled

So for my setup I was going to return it at a tangent to the kettle, about 2/3 of the way up (or at my normal level for a ~20L batch) and in the same direction the whirlpool went. This should then return cooler stuff to the top (mix back in with the hot wort) and encourage a slight whirlpool again.

Kai has a bit on whirlpooling:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Whirlpooling

One concern he has is the potential production of DMS without boiloff. I was pretty sure that if you boiled long enough (90min for pils) you got rid of the majority of the precursor (DMM? DSS? BDSM?) so it's not a concern anyway. And how many no-chillers here have no-chilled till the cows come home with no DMS issues?

The other thing I was going to say was I'm 50:50 on whether waiting 20-30min has any extra benefit. Once the particles have clumped, they are there: either floating around or settled. Once you establish a good whirlpool, as soon as they have started their first cycle these particles will start to settle in the middle. I generally wait 5-10minutes and it seems to do the job (very slight swirling is still happening after 5min) but I might have to see if 20-30min improves things. My gut feel says not really: the separation happens when the whirlpool is happening, and the particles are big enough to settle within seconds (I would have thought).

Stu, only thing with Wobler is where is his bottleneck? If the sediment tank is before the plate chiller, whirlpooling when hot might make a difference (if there is better hot break separation at higher temps). If the sed tank is after the plate chiller I guess he should whirlpool while cold?

 

[///]

for all this effort, you know you get a CCV and just trub off in the morning? If you are going to all this effort and not managing your ferment (temp/o2 addition/ cell counts) you are wasting your time worrying about all these factors.

 

[spryzie]

use a bigger sediment bottle.

 

[wobbly]

Photos of using "polyester fibre" in a Hop Rocket to filter out break material

http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/gwk453/media/Filtering%20with%20HopBack/DSC_0242_zps0f8052c1.jpg.html

Not my set up but one I found on The Brewing Net Work

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[lael]

Wonder what polyester does at heated temps? Leach anything?

 

[djar007]

http://www.tfia.com.au/satellite/textiles/about-polyester

Not sure about at temp though lael. Maybe put the hop rocket after the plate chiller.

 

[Not For Horses]

Wonder what polyester does at heated temps? Leach anything?

You've obviously never tried to no chill a yeast starter in a PET bottle. Does not end well.

 

[Beertard]

http://www.corebrewingconcepts.com.au/product-category/stainless-parts/

There's a stainless triclover trub strainer in their parts list you might be able to fit into your system wobbly.

 

[lael]

You've obviously never tried to no chill a yeast starter in a PET bottle. Does not end well.

So you're saying it's a bad idea? Wonder how it goes for filtration in a hop rocket then? Seems... bad...

 

[Not For Horses]

So you're saying it's a bad idea? Wonder how it goes for filtration in a hop rocket then? Seems... bad...

I think it would be a pretty bad idea. I reckon you'd end up with a big glob of melted plastic in your beer.

 

[pk.sax]

Not necessarily. There are different types of polyester. Your hdpe cubes are a type of polyester.

Edit: Just think, sticking a poly filled pillow into a washing. Machine on HOT and then later Ito a tumble dryer doesn't melt the fibres.

I think it all depends on type of plasticiser used.

 

[Not For Horses]

Well technically yes, cubes are a type of polyester but generally speaking when something is called polyester, it means it is PET.
Bearing that in mind, a quick look at the elastic modulus vs temperature graph shows a pretty steep decline after about 80 to 90c. It wouldn't melt but I imagine it would deform quite a bit and cause aforementioned glob.

 

[Adr_0]

If you're afraid of poly esters maybe only use it if you're brewing a wheat, Belgian or English style and avoid if you're brewing a lager or APA?

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[roger mellie]

http://www.tfia.com.au/satellite/textiles/about-polyester

Not sure about at temp though lael. Maybe put the hop rocket after the plate chiller.

The whole point of the Hop Rocket is to Isomerise hops pre chill - going to the Hop rocket post chiller would seem to be defeating the point - unless you were using purely as a filter.

RM

 

[Bribie G]

Not necessarily. There are different types of polyester. Your hdpe cubes are a type of polyester.

Edit: Just think, sticking a poly filled pillow into a washing. Machine on HOT and then later Ito a tumble dryer doesn't melt the fibres.

I think it all depends on type of plasticiser used.

No.
HDPE stands for High Density Polyethylene.
Polyethylene (as used for plastic bags and some containers such as fruit juices and of course our cubes) is not an polyester, it's simply a very very long chain carbon to carbon to carbon chain with hydrogen atoms sticking off the sides and is the most "pure" plastic.

Polyesters are long carbon chains that incorporate various esters - for example PET is Polyethylene Teraphthalate. This can give rise to confusion with people who do not understand organic chemistry. The presence of "Polyethylene" as a component of the name doesn't mean that Polyethylene is a polyester, any more than Potassium Chloride as found in your shaker of Lite Salt and Potassium Cyanide are fairly similar. Try and see for yourself.

 

[djar007]

The whole point of the Hop Rocket is to Isomerise hops pre chill - going to the Hop rocket post chiller would seem to be defeating the point - unless you were using purely as a filter.

RM

If you were using it to run hops through then you would not need the polyester as the hops flowers are the filter . I have a hop rocket and am aware of how to and why to use it.

 

[Not For Horses]

No.
HDPE stands for High Density Polyethylene.
Polyethylene (as used for plastic bags and some containers such as fruit juices and of course our cubes) is not an polyester, it's simply a very very long chain carbon to carbon to carbon chain with hydrogen atoms sticking off the sides and is the most "pure" plastic.

Polyesters are long carbon chains that incorporate various esters - for example PET is Polyethylene Teraphthalate. This can give rise to confusion with people who do not understand organic chemistry. The presence of "Polyethylene" as a component of the name doesn't mean that Polyethylene is a polyester, any more than Potassium Chloride as found in your shaker of Lite Salt and Potassium Cyanide are fairly similar. Try and see for yourself.

I stand corrected. HDPE is indeed not a polyester. It's been a few years since I studied organic chemistry.

 

[Bribie G]

Been a few decades since I studied it