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Dave70

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In 'Brewing classic styles', the (AG) recipe calls up for this.

2.4kg of continental Pilsner malt.

4.65kg of Munich.

Magnum hops (13% AA) 14g @ 60min.

Thats it.

Then fermented out at 10 deg for the duration and largered for at least four weeks.

I want to stay as close to the traditional style as possible before I fiddle with it, but I dunno, just seems a little light on ingredients for a beer described a 'complex'.
Or is that the point?
 
In 'Brewing classic styles', the (AG) recipe calls up for this.

2.4kg of continental Pilsner malt.

4.65kg of Munich.

Magnum hops (13% AA) 14g @ 60min.

Thats it.

Then fermented out at 10 deg for the duration and largered for at least four weeks.

I want to stay as close to the traditional style as possible before I fiddle with it, but I dunno, just seems a little light on ingredients for a beer described a 'complex'.
Or is that the point?

Yep. Thats about it. I did a Maibock that was 50/50 pils/munich and it was great. You need to use the German malts to get the required complexity and WLP833 is also recommended as yeast choice. Next time I do it I will probably add a touch of wheat for some additional creamyness but it doesnt really need anything else.

cheers
Andrew.
 
I want to stay as close to the traditional style as possible before I fiddle with it, but I dunno, just seems a little light on ingredients for a beer described a 'complex'.
Or is that the point?
How traditional do you want to get? :)

The original 'bock' from Einbeck (~1300's type original) was a very light summer hoppy barley beer with 1/3 wheat and top fermented (ie an Ale or Alt type yeast).
After the 30years war crippled most of the country and beer brewing, 'bock' was migrated to Munich where it became a darker all barley beer due to the local (water) conditions and was most likely at this time (~1600s) fermented with a lager yeast.
Some monks began brewing 'Salvator' beer (~1800) which the people labeled as the first doppelbock to be seen.
At the end of of the 1800's 'bocks' and 'doppelbocks' were high gravity beers with low attenuation that were somewhat darker than English ales, with dopplebocks close in colour to a porter.
What the style guidelines outline as 'bock' is what's been seen for the last 100 years or so; OG of at least 1.066 (due to German labeling laws), malt driven aroma and flavour and noble hops used sparingly.
Since bock was created before the use of specialty malts things like crystal, chocolate and roast would not have been used 'traditionally', most likely it was made with a single type of malt (Munich malt). So using Munich for 75-95% of the grist has been recommended by a number of sources, and of course a 'traditional' decoction mash for additional colour and flavour. ;)
However for an easier mash and style-guideline-competition type beer you'd probably include less Munich and more crystal or other specialty grains, which is what - as far as I can tell - JZ's recipe calls for.

The "Traditional Bock" recipe he gives includes the two grains you mention, but he does not say to omit the specialty grains either, so I think his recipe is something like this:
2.04kg Pils
4.65kg Munich
227g CaraMunich
227g Crystal 120
113g Meussdoeffer Roast 200
113g Meloidin
Magnum to 24.3 IBU and a single infusion mash.

On the other hand his Maibock "Angel Wings" includes only Munich (2.49kg) and Pils (4.67kg) malt again with Magnum and a single infusion - which perhaps might be more 'traditional'

I've not listed to the podcasts for these styles yet, so he may intend to omit the specialty grains in his bock recipe, but the way I interpret the recipes from the book is that the 'steeping grains' are included into an AG mash with the quantities listed, unless they say to specifically exclude them (like some recipes do).
 
The "Traditional Bock" recipe he gives includes the two grains you mention, but he does not say to omit the specialty grains either, so I think his recipe is something like this:
2.04kg Pils
4.65kg Munich
227g CaraMunich
227g Crystal 120
113g Meussdoeffer Roast 200
113g Meloidin
Magnum to 24.3 IBU and a single infusion mash.

On the other hand his Maibock "Angel Wings" includes only Munich (2.49kg) and Pils (4.67kg) malt again with Magnum and a single infusion - which perhaps might be more 'traditional'

I've not listed to the podcasts for these styles yet, so he may intend to omit the specialty grains in his bock recipe, but the way I interpret the recipes from the book is that the 'steeping grains' are included into an AG mash with the quantities listed, unless they say to specifically exclude them (like some recipes do).

I think your interpretation may be spot on, that looks a lot more interesting now.
 
My currnet bock and the first one ....The beer is under gravity but it aint going into comps so i dont want it as strong would use more munich and cut down on crystal if i had more munich i reckon some melanoidan malt be good too

bock

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.90
Anticipated OG: 1.05585 Plato: 13.769
Anticipated EBC: 37.7
Anticipated IBU: 24.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 0 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
63.6 3.75 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 317.420 24
29.7 1.75 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 317.420 4
5.1 0.30 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 292.358 125
1.7 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special II Germany 300.710 1100

Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Pacific Hallertau Pellet 4.80 24.5 60 min.


Yeast
-----
 
Simple recipe doesn't mean simple tasting beer or even easy beer to brew. Complicated recipe also doesn't equal complex beer.

Just a general observation - not a bock expert
 
Simple recipe doesn't mean simple tasting beer or even easy beer to brew. Complicated recipe also doesn't equal complex beer.

Just a general observation - not a bock expert


Would I be right in saying most of the complexities would come from the yeast? What yeast would be recomended for a simple Bock 50/50 Munich and Pilsner malt?

Drew
 
Its the size of the thing that makes it.
 
Would I be right in saying most of the complexities would come from the yeast? What yeast would be recomended for a simple Bock 50/50 Munich and Pilsner malt?
Given that the style is very malt driven I'm not sure if you want very much - if any - yeast character.
JZ suggests WLP833 or Wyeast 2206 in the 3 bock recipes in his book (including the Pils/Munich only recipe) - my smack-pack is in the fridge yet to be opened, so I can't comment on how it goes - but I'd assume that any of the fairly similar lager yeast would perform equally well.
 
Given that the style is very malt driven I'm not sure if you want very much - if any - yeast character.
JZ suggests WLP833 or Wyeast 2206 in the 3 bock recipes in his book (including the Pils/Munich only recipe) - my smack-pack is in the fridge yet to be opened, so I can't comment on how it goes - but I'd assume that any of the fairly similar lager yeast would perform equally well.

Gonna use a pack of 2487PC - Hella Bock yeast i've had for a while. Was planning on using it for a schwarzbier, but did the schwarz as an ale with US05 instead. So now weather's a bit cooler and the kegs are full (except one that blew last night... not happy) do a nice Maibock/Hellesbock with it seems a simple bill... but worth a shot.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Helles Bock
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer:
Style: Mailbock/Helles Bock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 19.00 L
Boil Size: 21.75 L
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 14.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.44 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 65.20 %
1.84 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 34.80 %
14.00 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.7 IBU
14.00 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.3 IBU


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 5.28 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 13.79 L of water at 72.4 C 66.0 C


Notes:
------


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