Black Ipa's

[jimi]

The Otway Estate IBA drop is described by the lads as;
"Like an India Pale Ale, Otway Panther IBA is a full bodied beer that's rich in hop bitterness and American hop aroma. Caramelised black malt imparts a subtle burnt flavour and the black colour to this rare beer."

They seem comfortable with leaving a bit of the burnt in. I imagine in the early days of this style there's few style police! Did anyone try it? I'm assuming its the first 'local' brew of this kind.
I still haven't git to try it :angry:

 

[jimi]

The key is what dark malt are you using? The only good malts I have read about are Carafa and preferably Carafa Special that has been dehusked or debittered black. The debittered black is a black barley that has been dehusked also. The husk adds lots of the burnt flavor to beer. In the styles it is desired in it is a good thing. In a Black IPA or what ever you want to call it, it is a bad thing.

Late additions of the dark malt is at mash out or sparging. I BIAB so add it at mash out or when I am bringing the mash to 170F. I add it in increments as I have not got an exact amount to add to get the color yet.

The last home brew the Wife sampled that was a black was to dark tasting for her. I am sure the brewer added the dark grains in with the mash or used traditional dark grains.

So if you are trying for the color with any Porter malts or Stout malts you are missing it.

Any husk fearing brewers tried roast wheat instead of the carafa spec?

 

[MHB]

Just a random thought, bare with me a minute, but if you have ever made Billy Tea the old way, tea and sugar into cold water the over the camp fire.

The strange thing is that you can get a really dark rich tea without the tannin harshness you would give without the sugar in there the sugar blocks a lot of flavours from coming into solution.

Just wondering if a similar process would work with dark grains, either steeping in cold wort (if youre a bit of a purist like me) or just in a sugary solution, trying to extract the colour without the flavours, one to have a play with tomorrow, opps make that later today.

MHB

Roast Wheas is great!
M

 

[Barley Belly]

Just a random thought, bare with me a minute, but if you have ever made Billy Tea the old way, tea and sugar into cold water the over the camp fire.

The strange thing is that you can get a really dark rich tea without the tannin harshness you would give without the sugar in there the sugar blocks a lot of flavours from coming into solution.

Just wondering if a similar process would work with dark grains, either steeping in cold wort (if youre a bit of a purist like me) or just in a sugary solution, trying to extract the colour without the flavours, one to have a play with tomorrow, opps make that later today.

MHB

Roast Wheas is great!
M

I think a few guys have tested this already Mark

Put the carafa in at the end of the mash. It can be ground fine. We just finished off one and when we brewed it we added the carafa at the end of the mash and keep adding till we got the color we wanted. End of the mash was when we started to raise the temperature for mash out with BIAB.

We had a chewy grain bill I will not confuse you with, as I am sure many of the grains you would need to substitute. It came in at 1.070 and finished at 1.014 using US-05. Lots more hops then you are using as Americans like there IPAs hoppy.

I think the official name that is being pushed is Cascadian Dark Ale. Being down there I think I would call it Tasmanian Devil Ale or something appropriate to your region. Beer is supposed to be fun so I do not get caught up in the IPSa can not be dark by definition argument. Besides brewing a nice midnight black IPA that does not taste dark is a neat trick.

Sure does sound like a novel idea

Might have to work it into a beer of my own in the future

 

[Fourstar]

They seem comfortable with leaving a bit of the burnt in. I imagine in the early days of this style there's few style police! Did anyone try it? I'm assuming its the first 'local' brew of this kind.
I still haven't git to try it :angry:

Murrays had one and it was delicious! :icon_chickcheers:

 

[jimi]

At Young and Jacksons tomorrow the brewers at Otway Estate / Prickly Moses will be presenting their new "American Style India Black Ale"
affectionately called the panther (or something like that). Haven't been able to try it myself but would be interested in others thoughts. I just got one of their info emails and can't recall all the details, but it should interest anyone interested in the style in melb cbd.

Got my dates wrong folks, if you want to try the Prickly Moses IBA it's at Young and Jacksons tomorrow (Tues 29). Went out to the brewery today to see if they had any left but it was all locked and loaded for Y&J. Happily making do with their strong ale instead :icon_drool2:

 

[Fourstar]

Got my dates wrong folks, if you want to try the Prickly Moses IBA it's at Young and Jacksons tomorrow (Tues 29). Went out to the brewery today to see if they had any left but it was all locked and loaded for Y&J. Happily making do with their strong ale instead :icon_drool2:

Interesting. I misht swing past on my way home from work!

 

[brettprevans]

Good article in this months zymurgy on cascadian dark ales (the new name as opposed to black ipa).
The article confirms it's not just an ipa with colour that it's about using dark malts to compliment ultra hoppy orange/tangarine/mint/rosemary flavours from the northwest pacific variety.

They talk about using carafa, choc, dark crystal, and as already mentioned commercial breweries using sinamar

 

[katzke]

Good article in this months zymurgy on cascadian dark ales (the new name as opposed to black ipa).
The article confirms it's not just an ipa with colour that it's about using dark malts to compliment ultra hoppy orange/tangarine/mint/rosemary flavours from the northwest pacific variety.

They talk about using carafa, choc, dark crystal, and as already mentioned commercial breweries using sinamar

A group has formed that is pushing the name as well as trying to define the style. They need brewers to enter the beer in the specialty category under a common name before BJCP will consider giving it a category of its own. Part of the process is also defining what the style description should be.

Not all agree with their name or description of the style.

 

[Fents]

drinking my attempt now. wow, massive beer. really fucks with your brain you think your going to get a big hit of roast/coffee then the hops just slap you in the face. if you close your eyes you think its a really nice AIPA. Tiny hint of a bit of licquorice in mine which works.

mine ended up 66 ibu's @ 6.2%. highly recommended experince making/drinking one of these black ipa's....bugga cascadian or india brown, black ipa's sounds wicked i reckon.

 

[rude]

Never. We are undefeated since 1942.

Go you Tobruk Rats thank you uncle Bill

 

[jbowers]

I hear kooinda are putting one out real soon

 

[katzke]

drinking my attempt now. wow, massive beer. really fucks with your brain you think your going to get a big hit of roast/coffee then the hops just slap you in the face. if you close your eyes you think its a really nice AIPA. Tiny hint of a bit of licquorice in mine which works.

mine ended up 66 ibu's @ 6.2%. highly recommended experince making/drinking one of these black ipa's....bugga cascadian or india brown, black ipa's sounds wicked i reckon.

Sounds like you nailed the version my Wife likes. She does not go for dark beers like I do. The Black IPA givers her the satisfaction of making people think she drinks dark beers while still enjoying her hoppy IPA.

I can not get past the hops of either. I think there may be some other level of flavor in a black. Definitely not the traditional dark flavor some think it should have.

What color did you get? A good black or more on the brown side.

 

[boybrewer]

I was just reading about the Black IPA'S last night . This article was in the BYO mag . They were going to call it Cascadian IPA , they felt that the non Northwestern brewers would be turned off by this style as it may have hinted to regional exclusivity. I am impressed with the colour and hopping additions that much this is going to be my next brew .If it turns out well I may put it into the Vicbrew Comp .

 

[katzke]

I was just reading about the Black IPA'S last night . This article was in the BYO mag . They were going to call it Cascadian IPA , they felt that the non Northwestern brewers would be turned off by this style as it may have hinted to regional exclusivity. I am impressed with the colour and hopping additions that much this is going to be my next brew .If it turns out well I may put it into the Vicbrew Comp .

Odd thing is the style was not even started here. As I understand it was first brewed commercially in Vermont, and long ago. The West Coast is a late comer to the style. Cascadian refers to the NW hop verities used by most brewers for the beer. Funny that the American version of the IPA was not called Cascadian or West Coast Pale Ale.

I actually prefer Black IPA as it is a better description. The ones that we have sampled are just black American IPAs.

 

[argon]

Gonna do one of these to get rid of a couple of partial bags of hops... i think the grain bill look s a tad convoluted... thinking about simplifying it a touch. Probably add the Carafa only at mash out.

I've hedged my bets and called it a Black IPA under the style American Style India Black Ale


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Black IPA
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Style India Black Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 38.00 L
Boil Size: 45.39 L
Estimated OG: 1.067 SG
Estimated Color: 53.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 57.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 kg Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (6.0 EBC) Grain 71.44 %
2.20 kg Munich II Malt (Weyermann) (22.5 EBC) Grain 17.46 %
0.35 kg Carafa Special T3 Malt (Weyermann) (1400Grain 2.78 %
0.35 kg Aromatic Malt - (Dingemans) (37.0 EBC) Grain 2.77 %
0.35 kg Carapils Malt (Weyermann) (4.0 EBC) Grain 2.77 %
0.35 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 2.77 %
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 5.5 IBU
40.00 gm Centennial [9.90 %] (60 min) Hops 21.8 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (30 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
30.00 gm Centennial [9.90 %] (30 min) Hops 12.6 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
25.00 gm Centennial [9.90 %] (15 min) Hops 6.8 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
25.00 gm Centennial [9.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
30.00 gm Centennial [9.90 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1.65 tsp Salt (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
8.26 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
16.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 12.60 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 37.80 L of water at 72.7 C 66.0 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 5 min 75.6 C


Notes:
------
All hop additions minus 15 mins for NC Cube adjustments
5 min Hop additions french pressed into fermenter prior to pitching

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[argon]

Filtered and kegged this last night... firstly... i need to do more IPAs :icon_drool2:

I had some left over beer after kegging and had a few sneaky samples. The late hop flavour and aroma was to die for. No roastiness "black" flavours at all. Could have closed my eyes and not known it was a dark beer.

It's not black... more like very dark brown and is not opaque when held up to the light. The hop schedule i ended up doing is slightly different to the above as i added a 10min, 5 mins and 0 min addition and doubled the dry hops.

Can 't wait for it to carb up... this weekend might have a few hangovers in store for me as it started at 1074 and finished at 1015 for 7.7%ABV... but it still tastes nicely balanced at 66IBU.

 

[mwd]

Sounds absolutely delicious love Ipa after getting hooked on Punk IPA.
You haven't had this on the go in fermenters since mid August have you ?( last post) B)

edit: emoticon

 

[argon]

Sounds absolutely delicious love Ipa after getting hooked on Punk IPA.
You haven't had this on the go in fermenters since mid August have you ?( last post) B)

edit: emoticon

It certainly smells and tastes delicious in it's early days... i think i ended up doing this in late October no chilled and then a little over 2 weeks in primary. Had to get some Oktoberfest lagers out of the way first.

Once i buy a few pounds of hops from the states i'll be planning the next IPA... i've had a few good commercial ones lately i wouldn't mind replicating.

 

[BrenosBrews]

For the record the Brewers Association have named it American-style India black ale.

American-style India black ale has medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol content,
balanced with a medium body. The style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and medium to
strong dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent. Fruity,
floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute to aroma and flavor.
Original Gravity (Plato) 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 Plato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (Plato) 1.012-1.018 (3-4.5 Plato) ●
Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 5-6% (6 -7.5%) ● Bitterness (IBU) 50-70 ● Color SRM (EBC) 25+ (50+ EBC)


Reference; http://www.brewersassociation.org/attachme..._Style_2010.pdf