Black Ipa's

[haysie]

For Sale:
1 Brewery, pickup only. Used often by a cheating brewer.


Although water modification is quite traditional (brewers burtonising their water) atleast with modern brewing poractices anyway.

Before or after rev osmosis. Nothing wrong with sinamar IMO, never used it but will one day. cheating? is a bit far fetched.

 

[jimi]

At Young and Jacksons tomorrow the brewers at Otway Estate / Prickly Moses will be presenting their new "American Style India Black Ale"
affectionately called the panther (or something like that). Haven't been able to try it myself but would be interested in others thoughts. I just got one of their info emails and can't recall all the details, but it should interest anyone interested in the style in melb cbd.

 

[vykuza]

I've been whacking away at a few BIPA, BAPA or CDAs, (depending on who you ask) recipes over the past few months after I had a few rather delicious Widmer Pitch Black IPAs in Oregon last January.

This is the 2nd take (of four) on a recipe/clone and I think the best so far. I make them very bitter, nice and strong and with a grain bill that does leave a little bit of the dark malt flavour coming through. I find the use of heavy, resinous hops tends to work with what seems an overdose of dark grains for this style - the hops tend to push down the strong flavours from the roast malt, and vice versa. It's not a session beer, but I'll be blowed if it isn't _extremely_ tasty.

If there's a trick, then it's to mash pretty low. Mashing high tends to end up with a treacly, sweetish mess. My angle is that the style is all about being crisp and resinous, with the black malts adding more astringency for your tongue to get around.


Widmer Pitch Black Clone #2
American IPA


Type: All Grain
Date: 25/04/2010
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Nick
Boil Size: 31.36 L Asst Brewer: Betty the Dog
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Birko
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.75 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 87.66 %
0.40 kg Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM) Grain 5.19 %
0.25 kg Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 3.25 %
0.20 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM) Grain 2.60 %
0.10 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (710.0 SRM) Grain 1.30 %
13.00 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 16.6 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
13.00 gm Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (20 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
20.00 gm Warrior [15.00 %] (20 min) Hops 16.6 IBU
20.00 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (20 min) Hops 15.5 IBU
10.00 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
10.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
10.00 gm Warrior [15.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.67 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 72.6 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l
Est Color: 35.6 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 7.70 kg
Sparge Water: 19.00 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 20.08 L of water at 68.9 C 63.0 C



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 141.6 gm Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 15.6 C Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 11.1 C

Notes


Created with BeerSmith

 

[Fents]

making this today...its the 3rd one from the latest BYO.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 25.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 54.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 69.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 91.67 %
0.20 kg Black Barley (Stout) (985.0 EBC) Grain 3.33 %
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 3.33 %
0.10 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 1.67 %
20.00 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 31.5 IBU
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (30 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
10.00 gm Simcoe [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
10.00 gm Chinook [12.40 %] (30 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
15.00 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (5 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
40.00gm Dry Hop Mix, Chinook, Am, Simcoe 4 days
8 Pkgs US-05 Yeast-Ale

 

[Maple]

making this today...its the 3rd one from the latest BYO.


8 Pkgs US-05 Yeast-Ale

Really?, or did you get those limited release 3 gram packets?

 

[katzke]

I am not an expert on BIPAs or CDAs but working on it. Both of the previous recipes look more like the hopped Porters that some people claim them to be then what I understand a black to be. My wife like a black to be no more then a dark looking IPA. Maybe a hint of bitter from the grains but nothing like a porter.

I also question the low mash temp in the first recipe. That would dry the beer out and with the hops and dark grains I would think it would change the character of a hoppy IPA. Course you generally do not like the as bitter or hoppy as we get them on the West Coast of the USA. One reason why I do not like them.

 

[brettprevans]

fourstar, i kind of agree but kind of disagree also. whats wrong with say cold steeping grain (like black patent etc) and adding post mash? why it is any differant to say adding strawberries or other fruit in secondary to get colour and/or flavour? or adding spcices in secondary, or french pressing hops?

its traditional in the sense that pople have been adding stuff to beer post fermentation for ages ie dry hopping.

now im not saying thats its exactly similar and an see your point of view. esp considering a beer i tasted recently, that used a few differant menthods to acheive the desired taste, as oppossed to conventional/current methods being described. I cant really eloborate, as I was told about the process and ingrediants asfter begging and beggin and I think driving the poor guy to tears (the AHB member in question will no doubt know who he is - god it was a GREAT beer).

I do suggest that doing an experiment to find out how much dark malt you need to get colour and no flavour is an idea. and then it can be changed/adapted etc to suit purposes. but then again, why just change the colour. a ipa which is black is of no interest to me. its like as you said adding food colouring. its a novetly. sure you want some characteristics of the black ale in the ipa to make a new style. just the same that a black lager isnt a lager with black colouring. it has notes of that lovely dark grain, possible hints or choc, roast etc etc, whilst been clean etc etc

my 2c

 

[Fents]

Really?, or did you get those limited release 3 gram packets?

No not really thats a muckup. just have a massive jar of 05 slurry to pitch.

 

[katzke]

No not really thats a muckup. just have a massive jar of 05 slurry to pitch.

US-05 is a beast. Not sure over pitching would get you much. Use a blow off tube or be prepared to clean up a mess.

 

[mje1980]

fourstar, i kind of agree but kind of disagree also. whats wrong with say cold steeping grain (like black patent etc) and adding post mash? why it is any differant to say adding strawberries or other fruit in secondary to get colour and/or flavour? or adding spcices in secondary, or french pressing hops?

its traditional in the sense that pople have been adding stuff to beer post fermentation for ages ie dry hopping.

now im not saying thats its exactly similar and an see your point of view. esp considering a beer i tasted recently, that used a few differant menthods to acheive the desired taste, as oppossed to conventional/current methods being described. I cant really eloborate, as I was told about the process and ingrediants asfter begging and beggin and I think driving the poor guy to tears (the AHB member in question will no doubt know who he is - god it was a GREAT beer).

I do suggest that doing an experiment to find out how much dark malt you need to get colour and no flavour is an idea. and then it can be changed/adapted etc to suit purposes. but then again, why just change the colour. a ipa which is black is of no interest to me. its like as you said adding food colouring. its a novetly. sure you want some characteristics of the black ale in the ipa to make a new style. just the same that a black lager isnt a lager with black colouring. it has notes of that lovely dark grain, possible hints or choc, roast etc etc, whilst been clean etc etc

my 2c

CM2, i add all my dark grains late in the mash, regardless of the style. I always get the dark malt flavour, without the harshness. Just my .02c. It works unreal. Adding even a small amount late ( 100g choc ) will still add some flavour IMHO.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

haven't got much to add, but since we are bagging Fourstar, I thought I'd get a kick in too ! nahnah nahnahnaha ! :icon_cheers:

Now, the latest BYO has a really wooooossie name "Black IPAs" where as they were called cascadian dark ales, which I liked better. Anyway, I'm drinking my first effort now, but really should emphasis that the multiple hops are important. Having only Chinook and Cascade isn't doing the trick for me and not enough maltiness to balance the hops. The hop bite is lovely, just harsh (unbalanced) in my effort. that said, thumbs up for this style in theory for me. And plus one for cold steeping and late adding of black malt - this one isn't a stout and we are not looking for astringency. Flavour.

 

[pbrosnan]

Indeed the article in BYO mentions that these types of beers avoid the use of the normal dark malts in the mash so as to avoid the burnt flavours. The recipes attached to the article use the darker cara malts for colour. It does mention cold steeping black malt for colour though. I've brewed the following a couple of times, I hadn't heard of this style but on reflection it probably is a black IPA (I've called it a US Brown):

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
82.2 6.00 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 7
4.1 0.30 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 470
6.8 0.50 kg. Flaked Corn (Maize) America 1.040 0
3.4 0.25 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 1.037 93
3.4 0.25 kg. Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) Germany 1.037 3


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15.00 g. Super Alpha Pellet 11.00 19.1 70 min.
30.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 39.3 45 min.
10.00 g. Simcoe Pellet 12.25 12.3 45 min.
15.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 11.2 30 min.
10.00 g. Simcoe Pellet 12.25 7.0 30 min.
30.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 11.7 15 min.
15.00 g. Simcoe Pellet 12.25 5.5 15 min.
20.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 4.9 5 min.
30.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 0.0 Dry Hop
20.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 0.0 Dry Hop


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes

 

[katzke]

CM2, i add all my dark grains late in the mash, regardless of the style. I always get the dark malt flavour, without the harshness. Just my .02c. It works unreal. Adding even a small amount late ( 100g choc ) will still add some flavour IMHO.

The key is what dark malt are you using? The only good malts I have read about are Carafa and preferably Carafa Special that has been dehusked or debittered black. The debittered black is a black barley that has been dehusked also. The husk adds lots of the burnt flavor to beer. In the styles it is desired in it is a good thing. In a Black IPA or what ever you want to call it, it is a bad thing.

Late additions of the dark malt is at mash out or sparging. I BIAB so add it at mash out or when I am bringing the mash to 170F. I add it in increments as I have not got an exact amount to add to get the color yet.

The last home brew the Wife sampled that was a black was to dark tasting for her. I am sure the brewer added the dark grains in with the mash or used traditional dark grains.

So if you are trying for the color with any Porter malts or Stout malts you are missing it.

 

[mje1980]

I've used most of the dark malts like this, and can taste all of them. I really like the "softened" flavour, which is basically the yummy roastiness without the edge. I've used carafa iii that way, choc, pale choc, and black. I even do it with brown and amber. Works for me.

I have soft water, so that may explain something.

 

[white.grant]

I've used most of the dark malts like this, and can taste all of them. I really like the "softened" flavour, which is basically the yummy roastiness without the edge. I've used carafa iii that way, choc, pale choc, and black. I even do it with brown and amber. Works for me.

I have soft water, so that may explain something.

Interesting Mark,

I've made a few dark milds and a smoked porter in recent weeks and have found - particularly on the dark mild using plain choc malt for the full mash, that I'm getting a really nice, non harsh softened flavour as you describe.

Perhaps the water is contributing, though I was putting it down to have the recipe balanced. I'm getting a lovely dark colour, with relatively small proportions of choc.

Either way I'm loving the beer.

cheer

grant

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Interesting Mark,

I've made a few dark milds and a smoked porter in recent weeks and have found - particularly on the dark mild using plain choc malt for the full mash, that I'm getting a really nice, non harsh softened flavour as you describe.

Perhaps the water is contributing, though I was putting it down to have the recipe balanced. I'm getting a lovely dark colour, with relatively small proportions of choc.

Either way I'm loving the beer.

cheer

grant

Interesting - what choc malt you on ? Is it the same as the last Sydney/Wollongong bulk buy? Saying that as (surprise, surprise I got a kg left) I am not getting as much colour from that JW choc as I expected (flavour wise fine) so I've use it equally with Carafa Special II or III (another case of overkill buying .. damn you Ross !!!!) to get great results. Since someone told me about cold sparging (and it may have been Mark at the last Big Brew Day) I find that a cold sparge gives the same colours without the "burnt" flavour. I'm using it for colour (ie not a stout) so getting exactly what the Black IPA specs are aiming for. Just wish I could get the hopping right!

Katzke : The only good malts I have read about are Carafa and preferably Carafa Special

clearly we will get different base malt in Aus to US - at least I guess weyermanns offers uniformity. However since the World Cup started we are not talking to Germany. However, to the best of my minimal knowledge, is Weyermann's the only dehusked dark malt on the market?

 

[katzke]

clearly we will get different base malt in Aus to US - at least I guess weyermanns offers uniformity. However since the World Cup started we are not talking to Germany. However, to the best of my minimal knowledge, is Weyermann's the only dehusked dark malt on the market?

I have not used the de-bittered black and have no idea who all makes it. I have to special order even the Carafa Special.

World Cup, whats that some beer drinking competition? You letting the Germans get the best of you at beer drinking?

 

[white.grant]

Interesting - what choc malt you on ? Is it the same as the last Sydney/Wollongong bulk buy? Saying that as (surprise, surprise I got a kg left) I am not getting as much colour from that JW choc as I expected (flavour wise fine) so I've use it equally with Carafa Special II or III (another case of overkill buying .. damn you Ross !!!!) to get great results. Since someone told me about cold sparging (and it may have been Mark at the last Big Brew Day) I find that a cold sparge gives the same colours without the "burnt" flavour. I'm using it for colour (ie not a stout) so getting exactly what the Black IPA specs are aiming for. Just wish I could get the hopping right!

Yes it's that stuff from the bulk buy, it's in a plain bag and don't remember what it was. No trouble with colour extraction.

What exactly do you mean by cold sparging?

cheers

grant

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Yes it's that stuff from the bulk buy, it's in a plain bag and don't remember what it was. No trouble with colour extraction.

What exactly do you mean by cold sparging?

cheers

grant

JW choc malt. I had a Weyermanns Choc Malt that I reckon was much darker.

Cold Sparging in that it is not in my mash tun. Meaning superfine crush, soak in room temp water, add liquid to boiler. I don't know if the term is correct, but that's never bothered me much. I'm not sure exactly what this method extracts from the grain, but the result suits, so I'll keep doing it until bored.

World Cup, whats that some beer drinking competition? You letting the Germans get the best of you at beer drinking?

Never. We are undefeated since 1942.

 

[GTS350]

Last time I was in USA I found Widmers Pitch Black IPA on tap - truly amazing beer! :icon_drool2:

http://www.widmer.com/beer_w_series.aspx

" Pitch Black IPA is a Pacific Northwest twisted tribute to an IPA style of beer. It is almost a traditional IPA but it is instead brewed to the emerging style of Cascadian Dark. We add a modest amount of a specially made debittered black malt to give this IPA a very dark color but without the characteristic dark malt flavors. Pitch Black IPA is hopped generously in the brewhouse and then again later during the dry hopping process. Hopheads of the world will certainly enjoy this dark version of IPA, as will beer drinkers looking for something new and experimental to fill their pint glass. "