Biab Plus No Chill Question

[bpt]

G'day guys, great resource here.
I've just done my first AG as a BIAB.
I've put the wort into a cube for no chill.
When I transfer to my fermenter should I aim to reduce sediment during the transfer or just pour the whole lot in?
(I've used whirlfloc)
Thanks
Tom.

 

[jimmy86]

Hi Tom,
Did you add the trub to the cube or did you syphon the wort off of it (or used a tap) If the cube contains trub I would aim to reduce it while adding it to the fermenting vessel, but if the cube doesn't use the transfer to aerate your wort for a healthy fermentation.
Congrats on your first AG
Jimmy

 

[stux]

I like to decant off the trub in the cube. This way you get a nice clean compact yeast cake in your fermenter.

I would generally pour until I begin to get some carryover, then stop.

 

[bpt]

Hi Tom,
Did you add the trub to the cube or did you syphon the wort off of it (or used a tap) If the cube contains trub I would aim to reduce it while adding it to the fermenting vessel, but if the cube doesn't use the transfer to aerate your wort for a healthy fermentation.
Congrats on your first AG
Jimmy

Jimmy,
I syphoned from the kettle whilst it was whirlpooling, that way the whole lot went into the cube.
I'm looking forward to drinking this lot, it was good fun making it, although a 38 degree day didn't help.

So the yeast doesn't feed off the trub, just the yeast ? I'm guessing the trub is just left over husk type stuff from the malt

 

[jimmy86]

Just do as Stux said, and decant of the trub out of the cube.
The yeast feeds off of the sugars that you converted through the mashing process not the protiens that are in the trub.
The first AG beer I made a couple of years back I fermented it out on the trub and it still turned out quite drinkable (but I may be fussier now) But it still hit its FG in normal time.

 

[manticle]

Up to you. I ferment on my trub (cold break only - I leave the hot break behind in the kettle) and note no discernible difference from when I used to decant. Still get clear beer, compact yeast cake etc.

If you drink your beers chilled (I don't) and don't use polyclar (I don't do that either) and are concerned about chill haze (I'm not but again I don't drink chilled) then decant.

 

[Gavo]

Hi, I haven't been around here for a while and hadn't brewed for around five months until yesterday. (Been off seing the country) Anyhow I didn't have a yeast starter ready yet or any ready to use yeast so I no-chilled for the the first time in a year and had forgotten how much break forms in the cube until I looked at the cubes today.

I had always and continue to drop the whole contents of the cube into the fermenter when no chilling as the break and any other trub will always settle out. When chilling straight to the fermenter the break goes into the fermenter anyway.

So the process I use is to

1. Use a pickup tube set to the side of the kettle.
2. Whirlpool and let settle for five minutes.
3. Drain to the cube/s.
4. Stop draining to the kettle when I begin to pick up kettle trub and hop debris.
5. Pour the comlete contents of the cube/s into the fermenter/s.
6. Settle the fermenter to your way of choice - for me, crash chill for a couple of days and then polycar for a couple of days then keg.

Clear beer for me. B)

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[manticle]

If cold break, on an HB level has no major effect on finished beer* (and in my experience it doesn't) and if you are not bothering to leave it behind, why do cubers generally transfer their wort to fermenters rather than fermenting straight in the cube?

Surely the convenience of cleaning one vessel, the lesser risk of infection from transferring etc make this a viable practice?**

*Would dearly love to read this article despite the experiential but I can't find it anywhere:

Dickel, T., Krottenthaler, M. and Back, W., Investigations into
the influence of residual cold break on beer quality. Brauwelt
Int., 2002, 20(1/2), 2325.

** I know it's a viable practice as it's what I have done for a while now but curious as to why it's not more widely practiced.

 

[pk.sax]

To me, it's just easier to clean the drum. And the headspace thing, I can leave it be without really worrying about yeast spillover. Especially with the ants around here loving to get anywhere, currently they like to eat the insulation of my fermentation fridge through a little crack in the plastic!

On the cleaning front though, cleaned a cube that I poured out into the fermenter the other day, I'd filled it with nappisan hot water and left it alone for a day/two. There were still brown stains on the bottom of it after draining and rinsing, had to put some bleach in which has done the job, but I'd rather not have to resort to bleach. Cubes are just harde to clean if there is anything stubborn in there. With the humidity here, even with just a little leftover water in the cube it starts to get mouldy between uses. A good cleanout gets rid of that but doing that to a drum is plain easier.

I suppose I brew too infrequently to keep them in perpetual use.

 

[manticle]

I boil 5 L of water, sprinkle in some sodium percarb, seal and shake the crap out of it. Does the job, piece of piss.

Headspace just isn't an issue. Ocassional krausen leakage gets cleaned up but most often I get bugger all. I got more volcanoes with my fermenters utilising more headspace.

Never had an ant in my cube.

 

[pyrosx]

why do cubers generally transfer their wort to fermenters rather than fermenting straight in the cube?

Aeration?

 

[manticle]

Shake the cube?

 

[Spork]

Manticle, I can get some air / oxygen into a cube by shaking it, but I can get a lot more (I believe) by transferring (I put cube up high - on top of 'fridge, to get lots of splash) and 3 - 4 times through transfer putting lid on cube and shaking the **** out of it. I can get a much better shake with 5 - 10 - 15 litres of wort in a 1/2 - 1/2 - 3/4 full container than 20+ litres in a near full cube.
I usually do this the day after brewing (and cubing) anyway, so the empty cube is pretty easy to clean and sanitise.

 

[manticle]

Probably you can. I get enough by shaking for my liking. Do you measure your O2 saturation ppm?

I have no wish to make anyone change their processes if it works well for them. I just am curious as I have been using this method successfully for some time and don't think I could be the only one to be rapt with how easy it is.

 

[Gavo]

Suppose it's just a matter of how much you or I fill the cube. I generallly brew enough to pretty much fill the cube with little headspace left and like practicalfool I prefer cleaning a fermenter rather than a cube. With my bucket fermenters I can clean them in the back yard with a garden hose and a sponge.

Each to their own hey.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[manticle]

I fill it up as much as my kettle allows (sans hot break of course).

Give it a go one day. It's surprisingly easy and surprisingly unmessy. Open cube to let air in, close again, shake, add yeast, lid on tight then back lid off a couple of notches. Any krausen leakage gets a spray with starsan and a wipe. Easier than glad wrap and the cube is a piece of piss to clean if you use boiling water with your sodium percarb.

As you say - each to their own. For sure. Diddly iddly.

BUT.....


My way is pretty cool.

 

[stux]

To me, it's just easier to clean the drum. And the headspace thing, I can leave it be without really worrying about yeast spillover. Especially with the ants around here loving to get anywhere, currently they like to eat the insulation of my fermentation fridge through a little crack in the plastic!

On the cleaning front though, cleaned a cube that I poured out into the fermenter the other day, I'd filled it with nappisan hot water and left it alone for a day/two. There were still brown stains on the bottom of it after draining and rinsing, had to put some bleach in which has done the job, but I'd rather not have to resort to bleach. Cubes are just harde to clean if there is anything stubborn in there. With the humidity here, even with just a little leftover water in the cube it starts to get mouldy between uses. A good cleanout gets rid of that but doing that to a drum is plain easier.

I suppose I brew too infrequently to keep them in perpetual use.

After you've drained your cube of wort, rinse it out a bit, the leave a bit of water in it and toss in a Camden tablet, then seal.

Your cube will stay just fine now until you pbw/starsan it before use, possibly in months.

 

[brucearnold]

If cold break, on an HB level has no major effect on finished beer* (and in my experience it doesn't) and if you are not bothering to leave it behind, why do cubers generally transfer their wort to fermenters rather than fermenting straight in the cube?

Surely the convenience of cleaning one vessel, the lesser risk of infection from transferring etc make this a viable practice?**

** I know it's a viable practice as it's what I have done for a while now but curious as to why it's not more widely practiced.

Manticle,
Out of curiosity, how big are your cubes? What volume of wort is in the cube? I only ask because using a 35L fermenter I have had a 20L batches of wheat make a complete mess of the fridge.

 

[Lurks]

Interesting thread. What about using a 25L cube instead? That'll leave plenty of air in there and plenty of head space for fermenting. If you slosh hot wort around, it should still be safe. Particularly if it's going to be fermented as soon as it's cool anyway?

This outfit in Melbourne has 25L cubes for $5.20 a shot...

 

[manticle]

Manticle,
Out of curiosity, how big are your cubes? What volume of wort is in the cube? I only ask because using a 35L fermenter I have had a 20L batches of wheat make a complete mess of the fridge.

I'd be less inclined to do it with a crazy yeast like 3068 (although I'd give it a shot at least once) but I haven't brewed a weizen for ages. I find them a bit dull - one is OK on a hot day but 20 L of the stuff would take me ages to get through.

My cubes are 20 L (which actually hold around 23 L).