Biab & No Chill Comp Results

[Stuster]

Acetaldehyde, is generally due to over pitching and or over aearation, or too high initial pitch temp, casuing a fast and flawed fermentation.

I've never really heard those reasons given for acetaldehyde. Not saying you're wrong but that's sort of the opposite to what I've seen. I've always found this a good quick reference point. AFAIK, acetaldehyde is an intermediate compound which is reduced by the yeast to alcohol. So if the yeast are not healthy and/or there are not enough of them in the first place, they are not able to complete this task completely. Alternatively, early racking does pretty much the same thing.

Anyway, back on topic, I've never placed with a no-chill lager, but I've got a few places with hybrids (alts and Cal commons) and my Dortmunder scored 101.5 in the recent Bathurst comp, including a 36 from Barry Cranston so it probably wasn't a bad beer. Still needs some work though and I hope to enter a different version of it in something next year.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I've never really heard those reasons given for acetaldehyde. Not saying you're wrong but that's sort of the opposite to what I've seen. I've always found this a good quick reference point. AFAIK, acetaldehyde is an intermediate compound which is reduced by the yeast to alcohol. So if the yeast are not healthy and/or there are not enough of them in the first place, they are not able to complete this task completely. Alternatively, early racking does pretty much the same thing.

Anyway, back on topic, I've never placed with a no-chill lager, but I've got a few places with hybrids (alts and Cal commons) and my Dortmunder scored 101.5 in the recent Bathurst comp, including a 36 from Barry Cranston so it probably wasn't a bad beer. Still needs some work though and I hope to enter a different version of it in something next year.

Everyone's a little bit right -

From Kunze Technology Brewing and Malting View attachment acetaldehyde_kunze.pdf

I have a few Chilled a few No-Chilled and even one BiaB going into the Vic comp and ANAWBS coming up... see how they go.

TB

 

[RobB]

I'm probably one of the least experienced AG'ers on the forum, but in a way that has given me the advantage of having a very open mind when comparing different techniques. I don't have any emotional attachment to any particular method of brewing.

I have BIABed and batch sparged, chilled and no-chilled. I haven't entered a competition yet, but I've been happy with the results that each of these methods produces.

Despite my lack of experience, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that the importance of your chilling or mashing method is insignificant when compared to the control you have over your fermentation. When my lag time is short, my fermentation vigorous and my temperature right where I want it, I get great beer regardless of how the wort was produced. When my yeast gets lazy or upset, that's when things start to go awry. Assuming that your recipe and hygeine are up to scratch, keeping your yeast happy is by far your most important job when making great beer.

I'm asking Santa for a temperature controller and a stir plate is on my to-do list. Once I'm happy that I'm in control of my fermentation, look out judges!

As for the lack of BIAB winners, I think that BIAB is probably most common among newer brewers. Chances are that they wouldn't be going home with the silverware regardless of their method. In the hands of a brewer who already wins medals on his traditional system (and there are a few on this thread alone), maybe a BIAB brew would be a winner. This seems to have happened with one of Pat's american minions who recently scored 47/50.

Just my thoughts......

Cheers,

Rob

 

[Tim]

I've never really heard those reasons given for acetaldehyde. Not saying you're wrong but that's sort of the opposite to what I've seen. I've always found this a good quick reference point. AFAIK, acetaldehyde is an intermediate compound which is reduced by the yeast to alcohol. So if the yeast are not healthy and/or there are not enough of them in the first place, they are not able to complete this task completely. Alternatively, early racking does pretty much the same thing.

Anyway, back on topic, I've never placed with a no-chill lager, but I've got a few places with hybrids (alts and Cal commons) and my Dortmunder scored 101.5 in the recent Bathurst comp, including a 36 from Barry Cranston so it probably wasn't a bad beer. Still needs some work though and I hope to enter a different version of it in something next year.

Acetaldehyde can also be caused by oxidation of ethyl alcohol. It first oxidises from ethanol to acetaldehyde and then to acetic acid. But you would only see this if you introduced a fair quantity of oxygen after primary fermentation. But could also occur if you introduce more oxygen before fermentation than the yeast can consume.
For the real nerds!

CH3CHOH --> CH3C(O)H --> CH3COOH

 

[kram]

My Schwarzbier was no-chilled and got Champion Beer (1st) in the QABC.

 

[Katherine]

'm probably one of the least experienced AG'ers on the forum, but in a way that has given me the advantage of having a very open mind when comparing different techniques. I don't have any emotional attachment to any particular method of brewing.

You say that, but one of your beers has being one of the best home brew beer I have ever tasted...

 

[AndrewQLD]

All three of my beers (MaiBock 1st, British Ale 1st and Dusseldorfer Alt 2nd) that earnt me Champion Brewer in the QABC were no chilled, I haven't chilled a wort in over a year.

Andrew

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I was going over my brewing notes and it dawned on me that I had a relevant contribution for this thread

Lager and No-Chill - My BOS Vienna Lager at Vicbrew was a No-Chill beer, also got a bronze at the AABC

and more unusually

The Apricot Berlinerweiss that won the Fruit/Specialty category at Vicbrew, was for all intents and purposes a BIAB beer. I had forgotten. That beer was an intentional blend of three different beers. Two of those three beers (including the base beer) were BIAB.

The base beer was a 50/50 lager malt / wheat malt beer - 15.7 litres to 1.030 fermented with lager yeast (stovetop BIAB)

The second beer was a batch of strong golden ale - It was about a 4L (stovetop BIAB) batch @ 1.080 and fermented entirely with a culture grown up from orval dregs. The golden ale was way too funky - but thats OK because I wanted to dilute it into a much larger volume anyway. 1.5L of this stuff was diluted into 4L (the equivalent of a 1.030 OG) and went into the BW

The third beer was a 2.5L batch made up to 1.030 from DME - it was fermented with a tablespoon of clear juice collected from the surface of a container of natural yoghurt. ie: it was a nice pure lactic bacteria strain.

Altogether that gave me 21.7 litres - which was blended into a secondary fermentor onto about 1kg of chopped dried apricots for a month or so before kegging.

So there you go - a first place in a major comp with a beer that was 88.5% BIAB

Not sure if that means anything much - but its been done now... sort of

Thirsty

 

[kram]

Lager and No-Chill - My BOS Vienna Lager at Vicbrew was a No-Chill beer, also got a bronze at the AABC

Haha I can already hear a certain member mumbling away with the nochill lager combo.

Congrats on the success

 

[dr K]

Interesting thread.
Pretty much proves that you are no more likely to produce botulism in "No-Chill" than you are in standard heat exchange cooling, given the number of surviving judges!! It also indicates that "no-chill" is not going to damage your beers to the point where they fail to do well in comps (if at all).
BIAB seems to have a pretty big following in Australia even if it is, in some critics opinions, fundamentally flawed, so I would have thought that over the last how ever many weeks this thread has been open we would have heard some proud crowing from successful BIAB Boys and Girls.
Hardly a word and certainly no silverware in the defined styles.
Why?..surely from the thousand or more entries (no doubt a lot of kits in there as well) in the 2008 AABC and feeder comps there were some BIABS...well there were certainly at least 3 or 4 , which were entered in the wrong categories, apparently,hindsight in hand ,deliberately.
It would be interesting to know.

K

 

[wakkatoo]

Thirsty boy - feel better now?? :lol:

I'm sensing some stress, and I prescribe to you a course of amber liquid. Now go forth and self medicate :lol:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thirsty boy - feel better now?? :lol:

I'm sensing some stress, and I prescribe to you a course of amber liquid. Now go forth and self medicate :lol:

You're right - I have deleted the post I made that you refer to above. It was not particularly vulgar or offensive. Although it was mildly insulting.

It also dignified dr K's pathetic squawking with far more response than it could ever deserve. I thought better of it.

 

[Darren]

Dr. K and Thirty Boy,

You keep quoting Botulism. I think if you were actually the intelligent guys you profess to be, you (and all the other knockers) will find that I have always said that the biggest issues for repeat-no chillers (same cube) are heat-resistent beer SPOILAGE organisms.

You will get away with no-chilling in the same cube for a while but eventually it will come and bite you in the fermenter.

I know, I know, someone has done a thousand no-chill beers in the same non-food grade container ,without use of sanitiser and not had a problem.


cheers

Darren

 

[Weizguy]

Dr. K and Thirty Boy,

You keep quoting Botulism. I think if you were actually the intelligent guys you profess to be, you (and all the other knockers) will find that I have always said that the biggest issues for repeat-no chillers (same cube) are heat-resistent beer SPOILAGE organisms.

You will get away with no-chilling in the same cube for a while but eventually it will come and bite you in the fermenter.

I know, I know, someone has done a thousand no-chill beers in the same non-food grade container ,without use of sanitiser and not had a problem.


cheers

Darren

Good point, Darren.
I always sanitise between uses of the cube or jerry can, and reckon that anyone would be inviting disaster if they didn't.

Good to see you back and refreshed. How was that holiday?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I never said anything about botulism....

BUT, I also agree with you and wouldn't think about missing a "normal" sanitising regime on the cube in addition to that provided by the heat. The cube is as sanitary as I am capable of getting it before wort goes anywhere near it.

I generally use a Phosphoric Acid sanitiser (starsan) because it helps to combat beerstone build up in the cube, but every few brews will swap to one or the other of an Iodophor or an Acidified Bleach (I know, I know...), just to make sure there is no build up of spoilage organisms that are resistant to both heat AND the acid sanitiser.

I do the sanitiser swapping thing for my cubes and all my other brewing equipment as well.

A timely reminder for all us No-Chillers out there. Just because NC is easy is no reason to get slack and turn down the sanitising def con - the spoilers will come to get you ...... and Darren is watching.

 

[James Squire]

My first foray into AG brewing was what I called All-in-one brewing. It was sort of the predecessor of BIAB.

I entered one of my early beers into ANAWBS in 2007 and it took 3rd place in the Sparkling Ale category. Not exactly BIAB but same principal. I've since moved on to traditional mash brewing, while BIAB is a great way to enter AG brewing it does have it's limitations. It still makes award winning beer though!

Cheers.

Cale.

 

[reviled]

Just got a silver medal in the SOBA NHC for my Bourbon Porter which was my 3rd AG and brewed with BIAB and No-Chill B)

 

[Bribie G]

Well deserved, had a swig of it at the Case Swap, nice drop :icon_cheers:

 

[reviled]

Well deserved, had a swig of it at the Case Swap, nice drop :icon_cheers:

Cheers mate :beer:

 

[Katherine]

Just got a silver medal in the SOBA NHC for my Bourbon Porter which was my 3rd AG and brewed with BIAB and No-Chill B)

:super:

up yours Chap Chap