Berliner Weisse starter?

[Dips Me Lid]

I'm gonna rack the wort into purged kegs and pitch the lacto in, seems like the best way to avoid oxygen at a homebrew level.

 

[2much2spend]

you're a sour :lol: :chug:

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Your weird mate stop harassing me !

 

[hirschb]

I'm gonna rack the wort into purged kegs and pitch the lacto in, seems like the best way to avoid oxygen at a homebrew level.

Yeah, this is the best way to do it!
After I move, I'm planning to start a "sour beer" keg that will permanently be filled with a multi-lacto/pedio culture. This soured wort base can then be added/blended to other beers as needed (pasteurized or not depending on the beer). Ideally, I'd keep the wort free from yeast contamination.

 

[hirschb]

What about one from raw wheat or malt, thrown into a low gravity starter, and kept at about 38°C in a Thermos overnight and cultured up to a higher volume?

This works, but is also a crap-shoot. If you try this, you absolutely MUST make sure that the wort is not exposed to oxygen!!!!
If not, you will get all sorts of nasty crap growing in the wort.
It's also good to have a low pH starter if using this method. Your chances of getting something you don't want are much higher if you don't use a low pH wort (I'd go find some food grade lactic acid).

 

[hirschb]

Good reading!
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Lactobacillus

 

[Dips Me Lid]

Yeah, this is the best way to do it!
After I move, I'm planning to start a "sour beer" keg that will permanently be filled with a multi-lacto/pedio culture. This soured wort base can then be added/blended to other beers as needed (pasteurized or not depending on the beer). Ideally, I'd keep the wort free from yeast contamination.

That's pretty much my exact plan as well! I think it will provide the Bacteria a chance to build up nicely. I'm planning on attempting the same idea in another keg with a bottle dreg culture I've been propping up for a month.

 

[2much2spend]

Good reading!
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Lactobacillus

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That's good reading, really good!

 

[OneEye]

The way I've always done mine is to do the mash and run off into the BK as usual. Then throw some raw wheat into it (bagged up of course). Then I put some good ol' glad wrap on the top, connect a CO2 hose to either your sight glass or your tap and bubble CO2 through the wort. This pushes out any O2 and puts a nice protective layer of CO2 on top of your wort. Leave it at ~40C and taste it over the next 36-48 hours (or more!) By tasting it regularly you can see how the acidity develops and when it gets to where you want it you boil it for 15-20 mins (kills bacteria and sanitises your kettle again) and from here on out you treat it as a normal beer. Ferment it with whatever yeast you like... something nice and neutral will do the trick. Always produces a good drop for me and I can control just how acidic I want it to be.

 

[2much2spend]

The way I've always done mine is to do the mash and run off into the BK as usual. Then throw some raw wheat into it (bagged up of course). Then I put some good ol' glad wrap on the top, connect a CO2 hose to either your sight glass or your tap and bubble CO2 through the wort. This pushes out any O2 and puts a nice protective layer of CO2 on top of your wort. Leave it at ~40C and taste it over the next 36-48 hours (or more!) By tasting it regularly you can see how the acidity develops and when it gets to where you want it you boil it for 15-20 mins (kills bacteria and sanitises your kettle again) and from here on out you treat it as a normal beer. Ferment it with whatever yeast you like... something nice and neutral will do the trick. Always produces a good drop for me and I can control just how acidic I want it to be.

what's your method for retaining the temp?

 

[OneEye]

You could use an STC, or people using urns could just set and forget

 

[dannymars]

I make a kettle cocoon, and use an stc + submersible aquarium heater (with the thermostat turned all the way up AKA off)...

I use a mixture of grain starter and pro-biotics... keep the temp 40C and avoid O2 (I have gladwrap directly in contact with the surface of the wort and going up the sides of the kettle. can get very sour very quickly, monitor it often.

 

[super_simian]

Make very sure you have good temp control. I lost a batch to clostridium. You do NOT want that, it is the most disgusting **** ever. Eat a block of Parmesan then spew it back up smells about right.

I posted this then read your post - so right!

 

[sharpcliff]

http://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/49531/Ethical-Nutrients-IBS-Support-30-Capsules

These are a great source of 100% lacto Plantarum. I mix it 50/50 with white lab's lacto brevis to make my own version of the omega lacto blend. 1 litre starter will do ya. 3 pills plus a vial. 1.040 starter wort w/ 10% apple juice and nutrient held around 40c for 48 hours. That'll get you pretty far, so long as you don't add any hops until AFTER souring. VERY sour after 48-72 hours.

 

[2much2spend]

http://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/49531/Ethical-Nutrients-IBS-Support-30-Capsules

These are a great source of 100% lacto Plantarum. I mix it 50/50 with white lab's lacto brevis to make my own version of the omega lacto blend. 1 litre starter will do ya. 3 pills plus a vial. 1.040 starter wort w/ 10% apple juice and nutrient held around 40c for 48 hours. That'll get you pretty far, so long as you don't add any hops until AFTER souring. VERY sour after 48-72 hours.

I think I'll try that, I got some lacto brevis coming tomorrow.
That pitch will do what size brew?
what pH did you look to get to?
How did you keep the o2 out when kettle souring?

 

[sharpcliff]

That'll do a 23 litre batch. Just did it again but this time with a slightly larger pitch (4 pills plus a splash of Brevis) and kept at 40c and at 3.35pH after 24 hours. I usually reach about 3.2 though I'll boil soon I reckon. Think I got a bit of yeast in there because there's more airlock activity than usual!

I sour in a better bottle because souring in my aluminium kettle is a bad idea. Strips that oxide layer clean off. I don't purge because I don't have a tank. Just keep an airlock on it. Keeping o2 away is always a good idea, but not nearly as crucial as when you're inoculating with grain. Much less competing bacteria when you're sanitary and pitch a more pure culture.

 

[sharpcliff]

Make sure to gently rouse the pills contents in the starter a couple of times over the first 24 hours when making the starter. I twist the flask. The pill's contents can just sink to the bottom and be slow to start unless mixed in a bit.

 

[BJB]

So do make a hole in the capsules and sqeeze the contents out or chuck them in as is? About to give this a go.

 

[BJB]

So do make a hole in the capsules and sqeeze the contents out or chuck them in as is? About to give this a go.

OK so it was powder in the capsules, all sorted and starter going!

 

[sharpcliff]

Yup. The capsules pull apart pretty easily. Try not to spill it too much when they pop open

 

[BJB]

The starter has been going for around 24 hours, very little sourness as yet. Sitting at around 39C.