Benefits Of A 3v Brew Rig?

[BPH87]

Hey brewers,
I am fairly new with brewing have only knocked over 8 BIAB's so far, just about to drink my first 2 beers this weekend. I am really enjoying the brewing process with biab but I would like to think that it would be far cooler on a 3v system.
That said I am interested in knowing what benefits brewing on a 3 vessel gas system are?
Cheers Ben

 

[bum]

You can make good beer with both (or any of the other systems).

It isn't that one is more beneficial than the other it is just about fitting in with how you want to work.

For me, 3v seems a bit less work, a bit more of a relaxed brewday (despite the extra cleaning) - no need to agitate the mash the same way, no hoisting heavy bags, etc. I can see why other people couldn't be stuffed with all the transferring of liquid all the time too. Horses for courses.

[EDIT: "heavy nags" - probably should change that before SWMBO thinks I'm talking about her]

 

[Logman]

For me, 3v seems a bit less work, a bit more of a relaxed brewday.

Seems counter intuitive but it works out that way for me too. At the end of the brewday I fill the cubes and hose out the kettle, finished - cleaning up can be done during the boil.

I keep wanting to add a HERMS to it but at the moment I can do three cubes with only 2 hours in attendance using temp control etc.

 

[sim]

I think it main difference largely comes down to sparging options, and these have often been very debatable, lots of opinion there.

As mentioned above, with 3v for me its about how i want brewday to flow - slow, leasurely, methodical. Also, im a sucker for a false bottom and that ruled out the bag for me.

Keep reading and experimenting i say, otherwise you'll just have a whole bunch of other people's opinions.

 

[DUANNE]

for me going from biab to 3v has meant a quicker brew day. other advantages for me have been clearer wort and better yield because i have halved my losses to trub at the end of the boil. the finished beer at the end of the process is much the same though besides maybe a touch brighter.

 

[mxd]

for me, I can do 60 ltr batches and consecutive batches (mashing new whilst boiling old)



N.B could do the same with BIAB with a big enough pot and hoist and 2 pots

 

[tallie]

A benefit of 3V is that it's less time to do a back-to-back double brewday, as you can mash the second brew in while you're boiling the first. BIAB specifically has limitations in the batch size too. Depending on how much/often you want to brew, those trade-offs may not be relevant to you.

Cheers,
tallie

Edit: Beaten by mxd, although...

N.B could do the same with BIAB with a big enough pot and hoist and 2 pots

...now you're up to at least 2V

 

[raven19]

...and consecutive batches (mashing new whilst boiling old)

+1, one of the advantages for me too.

It really does come down to how you like to brew, and how much space you have. And budget available / building skills, etc.

I'd recommend getting along to a brew day near your place to see other rigs in action, to give you an appreciation for the advantages/disadvantages of the various setups.

 

[Malted]

Given you have specifically asked about a gas powered 3V system:

Regulating the temperature of a gas fired HLT can be tricky, most folks find it easier to use an electrically heated HLT. Gas fired kettle is fine particularly when you can reuse your existing BIAB kettle for this.
If you have a natural gas BBQ outlet you could hook your system up to this and on an energy cost basis it could work out cheaper than 8.5kg gas bottle refills or the cost of the electricity for an electric system. You would require your burners to be appropriately jetted for natural gas.
If using a gas fired HLT and kettle you could suck through an 8.5kg bottle possibly every couple of brews. It would be best to have a reserve bottle at all times or use a larger bottle (that gas distributors come to your house to refill, as per bottles for kitchen stove etc).

Most folks will have an electric HLT for finer control of temperatures and ease of construction. A lot of folks prefer a gas fired kettle for it's sheer brute heating force and again for ease of construction. Very few folks will directly heat their mashtun (though some do), they either insulate it and leave it alone or they use an external wort heating system such as HERMS or RIMS.

 

[Crusty]

I'm going to put my hand up for BIAB & as an ex 3V PID rims brewer, I can't see a single benefit with using 3V. You constantly hear people saying I changed to 3V because I get clearer wort into my boil kettle & the wort is quite turbid with BIAB. I'll let you in on a little secret, It does not matter.
Kopperfloc into the urn 10mins from the end of the boil will yield crystal clear wort into my no chill cube.
I have an electric urn, a roasting rack to cover the exposed element, a BIAB bag, a hop bag & a paint stirrer to rouse the mash when ramping from sacc rest to mash out. Adding another two vessels to this along with a pump, camlocks, hoses etc, adds up to more cleaning & more time on brew day. As far as beer quality with the two systems, no difference at all, both great beers. Now that I have done a few brews with BIAB, I can't believe I put up with all the extra gear & expense to get it going only to prove that a simple rig will produce equal results for a quarter of the price of my ex 3V system. It's exciting to have all that bling & gadgets but so unnecessary to produce great beer. Simplicity is where it's at for time poor people like me & this suits me perfectly. Efficiency is another point people keep bringing up saying BIAB will yield less efficiency than 3V. I have blown that theory out of the water & my recipes are calculated @80% & I hit 86% into fermenter efficiency last brew & this a constant figure for me. So a simple rig, cheap to get into that produces superb beer with minimal fuss makes for a pleasurable brew day & I would never look at going 3V again, no way.

 

[BPH87]

Going electric is probably the way to go although once I move to Brisbane, not sure how many rental houses have more than two circuits. (Old homes.)

Is there any benefit running the kettle as gas and having hlt & mash tun electric?

 

[Crusty]

Going electric is probably the way to go although once I move to Brisbane, not sure how many rental houses have more than two circuits. (Old homes.)

Is there any benefit running the kettle as gas and having hlt & mash tun electric?

I ran my HLT gas fired, mash tun temp controlled by PID & rims tube (2400w element) & boil kettle gas as well. I rent & I could only make use of the standard 10A circuits in the house so went that way.

 

[Yob]

Going electric is probably the way to go although once I move to Brisbane, not sure how many rental houses have more than two circuits. (Old homes.)

Is there any benefit running the kettle as gas and having hlt & mash tun electric?

Electric HLT and Gas fired Kettle works for me... I dont have to worry about the MT as I HERMS (So I guess it's electric too )

 

[JDW81]

Going electric is probably the way to go although once I move to Brisbane, not sure how many rental houses have more than two circuits. (Old homes.)

Is there any benefit running the kettle as gas and having hlt & mash tun electric?

I've got an electric urn for a HLT and gas fired kettle (mash tun is unheated, if I want to do a step mash I add boiling water). Works well. Fill up the HLT the night before, switch on in the morning, breakfast, coffee then start mash.

 

[Lakey]

I have been biab'ing for abot a year and only last week did my first 3v and I found the brew day went alot smoother than biab. I converted my 25L esky into a mash tun and used a bigW 19L pot for the hlt heated by a gas master butane stove using my electric heated keggle for boil, the easiest brew day so far! The best benefit was the clarity of the wort after recirculating through the grain bed. Only one 3v brew and I think I am converted! Next step for me will be herms and the brauduino!

 

[Brewman_]

BIAB specifically has limitations in the batch size too. Depending on how much/often you want to brew, those trade-offs may not be relevant to you.

Cheers,
tallie

I don't know, my next BIAB batch is not a big batch by any means for my system and I will knock out 58L of TTL. Basically triple batches are the plan and no problems, this one is one full batch and 2 small batches, 20L cube and 2 x 15's.
But all for 3V systems, I would have one.

Fear_n_loath

 

[Crusty]

I have been biab'ing for abot a year and only last week did my first 3v and I found the brew day went alot smoother than biab. I converted my 25L esky into a mash tun and used a bigW 19L pot for the hlt heated by a gas master butane stove using my electric heated keggle for boil, the easiest brew day so far! The best benefit was the clarity of the wort after recirculating through the grain bed. Only one 3v brew and I think I am converted! Next step for me will be herms and the brauduino!

That sounds a lot easier than turning on my Urn & adding the grain to the BIAB bag once at temp. How on earth were you doing BIAB before to claim it was the easiest brew day so far? I missed the benefit of clear wort into the boil kettle. Can you explain how a clear wort into the boil kettle somehow makes for a better finished beer. Seriously, I'm curious. Please don't be mislead by what you may have read, a clearer wort into the boil kettle means nothing, absolutely nothing.
Each to their own for sure but don't be fooled into thinking that the 3V will make you a better beer, it ain't gunna happen. Don't waste your money bro.
Good luck

 

[Bribie G]

Despite the BIAB purist nazis that lurk out there, BIAB is quite flexible. For example I have an esky and an immersion heater. So while the first BIAB brew is boiling in the urn I can be mashing a second batch in the bag-lined esky and when the first brew has been cubed, after a quick hose out of the urn, the second bag can be raised and the wort transferred to the urn for the second boil. Actually I could keep going and do batch after batch until I drop with exhaustion or run out of cubes

The major disadvantage of BIAB is hoisting the bag but with a well designed skyhook / pulley system it's fairly trivial. I'm not in the spring of my youth and I do it single handed. As well as raising the bag single handed. B)

 

[Charst]

Despite the BIAB purist nazis that lurk out there, BIAB is quite flexible. For example I have an esky and an immersion heater. So while the first BIAB brew is boiling in the urn I can be mashing a second batch in the bag-lined esky and when the first brew has been cubed, after a quick hose out of the urn, the second bag can be raised and the wort transferred to the urn for the second boil. Actually I could keep going and do batch after batch until I drop with exhaustion or run out of cubes

The major disadvantage of BIAB is hoisting the bag but with a well designed skyhook / pulley system it's fairly trivial. I'm not in the spring of my youth and I do it single handed. As well as raising the bag single handed. B)

So really your doing a 2V System? Im a little over having 5litres loss to trub so im thinking about heading this way. plus i can do 2 batchs in a day easier.
Mash in one Keg with a false bottom and Bag for easy cleaning, Get to mashout, vorlauf till clearish, rack to Boil Kettle.
Raise bag and Start mash 2 while brew one is boiling.

EDIT: anyone know if the BIAB Liquor to grist ratio or presence of bag and false bottom will effect setting a grain filter bed?

 

[Bribie G]

yes 2V it is. Really 3v is 2v. The HLT "number one vessel" really doesn't count as a true vessel, you could be getting your hot water from a continuous gas water heater or something, or in my case heated in situ in the mashtun by an immersion heater. To me, real 3V is a mash tun, a lauter tun and a kettle.

I actually lose very little to trub as I settle it out overnight in sterile jars and get heaps for hop boils, starters etc.