Beginners Guide To Cider?

[Chelta]

Hi!
I'm looking to do my first home brew, and since my partner has done an ale I thought I'd like to do a Cider.
I bought from BrewCraft their Irish Cider kit which comprises of:

1x Black Rock Cider Kit
500g Lactose
500g Dextrose
250g maltodextrin
250g malt extract
1x apple schnapps extract

I've read on the forums that Berri apple juice is good to add so bought 5x 2.4L of it.

Also read up about Wyeast 4766 so have that to use instead of the dry kit yeast. I also have 1 tube of Wyeast Beer Nutrient Blend as well at my disposal.

Just wondering if I should make a yeast starter, and if anyone can tell me a good way to do it based on the ingredients I have? Also whether I should use the blackrock kit or just go straight for using only the berri juice? What would you suggest as a 'beginner cider yeast starter' and 'beginner cider recipe'?

Thanks!

 

[hillbillybreweries]

Hi chelta , i have a similar kit in a Fermenter that my wife wanted me to do. Mainly all grain brewed beer before. The people in my brew club that have done kit ciders have had a few comments about them. I notice you are using the apple scnapps extract. One of the problems I have heard is that cider can ferment out too much. Some brewers have told me they stop if where they want by dropping the temperature and stalling the yeast. Then they add apple juice to the keg to sweeting it up to suit their taste. One of the good brewers in our club thinks that a kit cider and cider from fresh apple juice are the same to him. I replaced the kit yeast with a dry wine yeast I brought at Grain and Grape in Melbourne and added yeast nutrient to it. I need to rack mine pretty soon so will be interested to see how much it has come down and how it tastes. Hope some of this is of some help.

 

[JDW81]

Hi chelta , i have a similar kit in a Fermenter that my wife wanted me to do. Mainly all grain brewed beer before. The people in my brew club that have done kit ciders have had a few comments about them. I notice you are using the apple scnapps extract. One of the problems I have heard is that cider can ferment out too much. Some brewers have told me they stop if where they want by dropping the temperature and stalling the yeast. Then they add apple juice to the keg to sweeting it up to suit their taste. One of the good brewers in our club thinks that a kit cider and cider from fresh apple juice are the same to him. I replaced the kit yeast with a dry wine yeast I brought at Grain and Grape in Melbourne and added yeast nutrient to it. I need to rack mine pretty soon so will be interested to see how much it has come down and how it tastes. Hope some of this is of some help.

+1 for replacing the yeast with dry wine yeast. The cider kit will still give you some sweetness through the lactose (an unfermentable) so no need to be concerned about it being too dry. I've used champagne yeast with great success.

I've got a great cider recipe at home (on the road atm) which I can forward to you if you like. It very simple and uses apples and juice as well as kit ingredients.

Happy brewing,

JD.

 

[vortex]

We have a smack pack of Wyeast 4766 Cider yeast (I'm her partner who made the Ale by the way) and will be using that for the cider; but would the Wine yeast be prefferable? We're planning to also do a starter, but I guess it's not really required for a Cider of this size.

 

[JDW81]

We have a smack pack of Wyeast 4766 Cider yeast (I'm her partner who made the Ale by the way) and will be using that for the cider; but would the Wine yeast be prefferable? We're planning to also do a starter, but I guess it's not really required for a Cider of this size.

lalvin 1117 champagne yeast is my cider yeast of choice. I've never made a starter for cider before so I can't really suggest to do one or not (I've never had any problems through not making one).

I haven't used the wyeast cider before, but I'm sure it would make an excellent brew. I like my cider strong and dry, hence the champagne yeast. Try the 4766 and see how it turns out, if you make another batch use a different yeast and compare the results. That is the beauty of home brewing, you can adjust to suit your tastes.

And as a very wise and experienced brewer once said to me 'the worst thing you are going to do is make beer' (or cider in this case).

JD.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

With the lactose , maltodextrin and malt extract even using 4766 it wont be dry.
I would predict it will finish 1008 to 1012 - always check gravity over 3days to confirm.

Ferment 4766 cool, 16 degrees works, it still produces big fruity flavours.

edit: don't worry about a starter, if your smack pack is reasonably fresh it should be good to go for that kit.

 

[hillbillybreweries]

HI Chelta,

As I did not drop the temperature on the primary at all I expected it to have gone to a low FG.

just went a took a gravity reading and mine has dropped to 1002, I will grab some Apple juice and add it to the keg before I rack it.

Cheers.

 

[Chelta]

Thanks guys for all your help/input So are you guys suggesting to try the kit first before doing a full juice only cider? I dont think I will put the schnapps in, but I was thinking of putting in a few litres of juice in replace of the water.

Do any of you know if I should go up to the 23 litres with the kit as it says on the actual can - or go to 21L as it says on the box instructions?

If I dont decide to use the kit and use just 12L of juice, do you still suggest to put in the lactose, dextrose, maltodextrin and malt extract (I guess about half since it would be close to half the batch size of the 21/23L)? I'm assuming the yeast amount would be the same too?

JDW81: Please forward me the recipe - I'm after trying one that'd give me a 'good base' to then later on start with doing things like frozen strawberries / vanilla / honey, etc later on to change the flavour slightly.

Once vortex and I have done the batch, I'll post the recipe we used and the FG and OG and such and let you know what it tastes like once its ready!

 

[pk.sax]

I've tasted some of the black rock cider kit stuff that a friend made. I'm reasonably sure hat he just used the kit + sugar/dextrose. It was a nice quaffable cider. Nothing too special about it. Add some fruit, strawberries or blueberries spring to mind after somentime if you want to add some taste to it.

Cider made from store bought juice can ferment out really dry with wine yeast. With 4766... Haven't tried yet.
It's never a bad idea to substitute some juice instead of the water the kit asks for, but going by all the fermentables you are already adding to it, the juice will bump the alcohol into another level. You might be looking at a 8-10% ish cider if you do this. Nothing wrong with that

I steer clear of adding lactose. I'm just too cheap to buy any really. But yeah, he malt etc you have there will work reall well if any of the ciders ive taste so far are to go by.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[Rowy]

I've been thinking of doing a cider. I used to go out with a girl that loved an old time brand called Dickens. God that girl loved a Dickens Cider.

 

[Chelta]

I've been thinking of doing a cider. I used to go out with a girl that loved an old time brand called Dickens. God that girl loved a Dickens Cider.

I'm not even sure this comment even justifies a response - all I can say is 'sad'....

 

[felten]

 

[pk.sax]

feelthy cider dikin trolls!!

 

[JDW81]

JDW81: Please forward me the recipe -

Will do, it'll take a couple of days though, not home till thursday. I've set a reminder so I don't forget.

JD.

 

[Nicko_Cairns]

Hey JD, I'm very interested in your cider recipe too if you wouldn't mind passing it on?

Thanks mate,

Nicko.

 

[Chelta]

Hey All
Thanks JD for your recipe We decided to go with the kit but just add 2 x 2.4L apple juice to the mix to see how it goes. We made it up to 21L (we only put in 250g of lactose - I can add some at the bottling stage if its too dry then right?), and so far the OG is 1.054

We havent pitched the yeast yet, still waiting for temp to drop to a good level! Hopefully should pitch the Wyeast shortly!

 

[Chelta]

Hi All!
Well we did pitch the yeast the same day - it had an OG of 1.054.
Just checked on it (giving it 2 days) and it looks like its down to 1.041. Had a quick taste and it tasted rather good even at this stage!

 

[vortex]

Still very cloudy too and plenty of airlock activity, and a long way to go yet but looking promising so far And the fermentation fridge smells like Apples!

 

[Chelta]

Hi All,
Well we got a FG of 1.014 with a few days constant at that - however the cider has ended up super dry ;( Since the kit I bought came with a full 500g bag of lactose and we only used half of it originally, we're gonna add the rest of it and give it a secondary fermentation.

We are also going to harvest off some of the yeast at the same time to prep for the next batch!

Does anyone know if it still doesnt get less dry through this stage, if bottle conditionining using those carbonation drops will help at all? I've heard that time also can make cider less dry ?

 

[Chookers]

hi, Ive got 4.5L of Juicy isle earth organic apple juice cloudy and 4L of clear apple juice.

I wanted to make 4L batches of cider in my 5L demis, for side by side comparison.. does anyone out there have a tried and tested recipe, I dont want it to finish too dry..

my ingredients consist of:

*apple juices

*yeast nutrients

*several different yeasts including cider yeast, sweet mead, champagne and US-05

*500g Coopers LDME

*Honey and Maple syrup

*Cinnamon quills

*pure Stevia powder


So are these good enough ingredients to make a decent cider??
I'd love to hear your thoughts/recipes