Bathurst (nsw) 2009 Results

[Darren]

Big Fella,

Yes been to a few comps over the last 15 or so years.. Never seen a judge pick his own beer as a winner. Actually never seen an entrant of a class judge it before. I for one know I would NOT judge a class i had entered. The solution would have been to have only two judges in the class?

cheers

Darren

(PS: I reckon first prize should be awarded to the second place beer)

Darren

I have avoided posting in this debate but I can tell you that a judge who can pick his beer in a flight of 20 is new to me. Some specialist beers, yes maybe, but most beers - no way.

Any way who are you cheating - only yourself.

The simple answer is if we don't have entrants judging beers there WILL BE NO MORE BEER COMP here in Bathurst. These guys travelled up here to Bathurst at their own expense and you don't know how much we appreciate that. That was the main reason to go BJCP to get the extra judges and by 99% of the comments here they had a bloody good time and saw that we run a genuine comp.

Thanks to those of you who were here and saw how it was run and have put the positive comments here on this forum.

Sorry to yell but when someone comes up with a better idea I will be the first to use it.

Darren, I don't know if you have been to a homebrew comp. to see what happens. If you have then you should have learnt how it is all done and if not, instead of being critical on this forum, go to a comp. and see how it is run and that the judges are genuine in their judging of the beers.

End of rant and maybe the end of the Bathurst Comp.

The Bigfella

 

[drsmurto]

Since this is a BJCP registered competition i guess the organiser will have read the BJCP information regarding the running of a competition.

This line in particular stands out

Judges

* Do not judge in a category you have entered.

So what implication does this have of any beers that have been judged by the brewer and have qualified for the AABC.......

Surely this would make the result null and void?

 

[petesbrew]

339 entries over a weekend by a handful of judges. A pretty damn good effort that.
If anyone could organise it, in that time, so no judge tasted his own beer, that'd be a bloody huge effort.

"Any way who are you cheating - only yourself." Well said, Lagerman.

Now, back to waiting for the postie delivering my results.

 

[HarryB]

339 entries over a weekend by a handful of judges. A pretty damn good effort that.
If anyone could organise it, in that time, so no judge tasted his own beer, that'd be a bloody huge effort.

Well said. It's a top effort by all concerned. I'm sure the judges are honest enough to keep the judging purely objective.

No complaints and congratulations to the "Big Fella" for a job well done.

 

[Adamt]

It would be interesting to have a look over the judging sheets of the beers in question.

 

[glennheinzel]

339 entries over a weekend by a handful of judges. A pretty damn good effort that.
If anyone could organise it, in that time, so no judge tasted his own beer, that'd be a bloody huge effort.

"Any way who are you cheating - only yourself." Well said, Lagerman.

Now, back to waiting for the postie delivering my results.

+1.

Whilst I can appreciate that the situation isn't ideal, it is hard enough to get judges (especially judges with experience) to run an event.

I'm comfortable with the integrity of the judging panel for the NSW titles so well done again to everyone involved.

 

[AndrewQLD]

+1.

Whilst I can appreciate that the situation isn't ideal, it is hard enough to get judges (especially judges with experience) to run an event.

I'm comfortable with the integrity of the judging panel for the NSW titles so well done again to everyone involved.

Well said.

And I can tell all the knockers, there is nothing more disappointing than being a comp organizer and spending months getting a huge competition set up, organizing sponsors, trophies, stewards, judges, score talliers, venues ect. only to have all your hard done efforts sullied by a few people who can't be bothered to help in the first place.

This is a sure fire way to lose another well run competition and it's also insulting to Lagerman and the judges and also to all the other organisers.


Andrew

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I know how difficult it is to get judges but if it's going to be a BJCP registered competition then surely you should follow the guidelines set out by them. I think Darren's idea of 2 judges per category is sound.

Anyway, I wasn't intending to stir the pot and if the guys who enetred the competition are happy with who judged their beers then thats all that matters.

C&B
TDA

 

[beachy]

it doesnt really matter how good an effort it was to run the comp or if the judge/s in question is the pope himself the point is that it is a BJCP comp being run as a qualifying comp for the nationals and as such all BJCP rules that all other states have to adhere too should apply here too

the rules are there to protect everyone now and in the future and if they were followed here this debate would not be happening
i am sure this judge/s is totally honest and these beers may well win the national comp too but that does not justify breaking the rules

is everyone going to be happy if the home state brewers judge their own entries at the national comp this year or any other year? especially the people supporting what has been done??

it is interesting to me that the organisers of this comp seem to have some moral problem with publishing all results in case someone that came last gets offended but cant see that people judging their own beer might cause a debate <_<

the TOO MANY ENTRIES NOT ENOUGH JUDGES line that always comes from NSW as it did last time they hosted the nationals is getting pretty boring and not really a good enough reason to break the rules even if it is only a volunteer run amatuer competition


beachy

 

[Armstrong]

Some people really suck the fun out of things that should never be taken that seriously!

IT'S A HOME BREW COMP GUYS!!!

Nothing life threatening, no-one's livelyhood on the line ... they are supposed to be a bit of fun!!

 

[Gulpa]

********! Here we go again. Yet another NSW comp organiser who will likely get pissed off and not run a comp again.

Bigfella, I really appreciate the fact that you put your hand up to run the NSW State champs as Im sure all other NSW entrants do as well. Im sure you went to a lot of effort to make it happen. Please dont let a few ******** discourage you from doing it again.

Regards,
Andrew.

PS. I entered one of the classes won by the judge and I dont give a fcuk. It will be good to get his feedback on what I can do to make it better next time.

 

[Tony]

Some people really suck the fun out of things that should never be taken that seriously!

IT'S A HOME BREW COMP GUYS!!!

Nothing life threatening, no-one's livelyhood on the line ... they are supposed to be a bit of fun!!

But thats the thing...... people can, will and do take it seriously.

People put a lot of effort into making beers especially to send off to competitions like this.

I do understand the dificulties of running these large camps with low judge numbers. I have entered plenty of beers in these comps and without looking back, there is a good chance ive been piped at the post on occasion by a brewer/judge competing in the same class.

But rules are rules and where do you draw the line?

Saying "its not to be taken seriously" doesnt work because some will take it seriously.

Do we make the competition for only people who are not serious about it?

I dont know...... i dont have an answer and im not a judge so i cant help out but rules are rules.

Its a catch 22 of Imperial proportions.

I think its sad because problems like this.... that seem to raise there head every year just drive people away. I know im not in any hurry to enter competition any more because it just seems to be a **** fight afterwards every year. But i cant help out so i wont complain. Im just putting in my 20 cents worth and kegging all my beer

cheers

 

[lagerman]

To the supporters I give a BIG thank you and you are in the majority.

To the rest I do not give a toss as I get off my arse and run a good competition and the knockers/stirrers can all get f#*%#ed.

I am happy with what we did but you knockers are enough to want me to give it away. Instead of knocking the comp. have a go yourselves. There are rules but as far as I am concerned if we stuffed it up and the National Competition will not accept the NSW Entries then "tough *******".

I notice most of the dribble is coming from South Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have had my say and you can keep going for ever if you like but I am out of here regarding the Bathurst Comp.

I have more important things to do than keep reading this crap.

That's it.

The Bigfella

 

[beachy]

yes it is just a home brew comp that the majority dont care less about but to some who entered and in this case because it continues on to AABC some of the other people that qualify might care
that is why there are rules and all involved should have the decency and goodwill to apply them not act as if they are above them

if this argument applied to everthing then we could have nathan buckley as one of THREE umpires in this weeks collingwood v geelong game
there would only be a few geelong supporters that care!

or since we are talking about NSW the referee for the next state of origin series could be mal maninga
i dont think may people anywhere else in australia would care about that BUT DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT ?

 

[Jez]

yes it is just a home brew comp that the majority dont care less about but to some who entered and in this case because it continues on to AABC some of the other people that qualify might care
that is why there are rules and all involved should have the decency and goodwill to apply them not act as if they are above them

if this argument applied to everthing then we could have nathan buckley as one of THREE umpires in this weeks collingwood v geelong game
there would only be a few geelong supporters that care!

or since we are talking about NSW the referee for the next state of origin series could be mal maninga
i dont think may people anywhere else in australia would care about that BUT DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT ?

geez Beachy, hate NSW much?

 

[beachy]

no jez dont hate NSW at all just think that as a qualifying comp for AABC the same rules should apply to all states
if it was a stand alone comp then it wouldnt matter

 

[bigfridge]

To the rest I do not give a toss as I get off my arse and run a good competition and the knockers/stirrers can all get f#*%#ed.

I am happy with what we did but you knockers are enough to want me to give it away. Instead of knocking the comp. have a go yourselves. There are rules but as far as I am concerned if we stuffed it up and the National Competition will not accept the NSW Entries then "tough *******".

I notice most of the dribble is coming from South Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian,

Yes it is surprising that there could be ANY negative comments here on AHB. It is even more surprising that those that have the loudest voice usually do the least to help out etc. The term 'empty vessels' comes to mind ....

To help educate the miss-informed, the Bathurst cometition was registered with the BJCP. The registration requirements are:

Sanctioned Competition Requirements

1. Blind tasting must be used.
2. Entries must be judged to published styles.
3. Scoresheets must be returned promptly to the entrants.
4. The Sanctioned Competition Handbook and Judge Procedures Manual should be used as a guide.
5. Competition reports must be filed promptly with the BJCP.
6. A judging panel must have a minimum of two judges and a maximum of four judges
7. The BJCP Privacy Policy must be followed

The selective quoting from the Competition Handbook that 'No judge or steward should be assigned to a category they have entered' gives the wrong impression when quoted out of context. The full parragraph is:

"Competition organizers, sponsors, judge directors, registrars, judges, and stewards may enter the competition if they wish. However, all contestants should be made aware that such entries are permitted and that measures have been taken to ensure fair, anonymous, and accurate judging. No judge or steward should be assigned to a category they have entered."

There are two important points:

1. Brian did everything possible to inform people that helpers were needed and that judges are usually competitors as well.

2. 'Should' does not have the same weighting as 'Shall not' or 'must not' but this tends to be a legal distinction.

In the hunter we have a very small judging pool and constantly come across this problem, so we use the approach taken in the USA and in most commercial beer and wine competitions.

Wherever possible we split categories into flights to avoid judges seeing their own beers eg if judges A and B both enter beers we split the category into two judging panels and Judge A is on the panel that evaluates Judge B's beer and Judge B tastes Judge A's beer. We then have a taste off between the two panels where the top 3 beers from each panel are re-judged to pick the best 3 beers for the placegetters.

If panels are split it is essential that a calibration beer is tasted by all judges at the beginnig of the session so that they can adjust their scoring to be closer to the average.


If any entrants feel that thye have been disadvantaged then you have the solution - get off your arse and help with next years comp. No helpers, no comp - simple really.

Dave

 

[AndrewQLD]

And with that clarification of the BJCP rules and guidelines I think this topic can be closed as there is no further purpose keeping it open.
Thanks for clearing that up Dave.
And thanks again to the Bathurst organizers.

AndrewQLD